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Provider
03-27-05, 07:24 PM
Hey guys,
I have been having some real erection problems and it's really starting to piss me off. I haven't been able to get erect properly for about 2 months now. The most it gets is like 75% erect on its own. I started to so some more girth work and then my erections got weaker. This is the routine I was doing:
- Hot wrap
- 5 mins of manual stretching
- 10 mins of wet jelqing
- 10 x 40second ULIs
- Hot wrap

Before that I was just doing a jelqing routine or something. I really wanted some more girth so I started doing the routine above for a while and it was going fine until my erections started getting weaker. The routine isn't even intense, especially compared to some other guys, and I'd been Penis Enlargementing for quite a while so didn't see a problem doing this routine. I did it most days. When I started getting the erection problems I kept up the Penis Enlargement but not as much. Then when they didn't get back I stopped Penis Enlargement. I've stopped Penis Enlargement for a month now, apart from the odd wet jelqing session, and they still haven't come back properly! It's really annoying me now.

I know it can't be a mental thing because this has happened to me before when I started to do more girth work. I stopped Penis Enlargement and the erections came back after about 3-4 weeks. But that hasn't happened this time.

I also don't think it can be mental because it does get like 70% erect or whatever but just not full. It feels like theres just not enough blood going into it. I get girls and it still doesn't get fully hard. If I am masturbating or doing something with a girl it may get 85% erect max but if you leave it alone it will go back down to 50% or whatever after 20 seconds or something!!

I do my kegels and I do the odd wet jelqing session to try and promote blood flow. I even took ZMA for about a month to try and boost my testostrone and erections etc but it still didn't help. I've got down masturbation a lot too.

Theres no noticable difference in my cock just by looking at it so I don't know what it is. I can only think my cock is damaged some how and not enough blood is getting into it or something like that.

Please guys, don't advise me to take viagra or anything like that because I am 19 and shouldn't need that shit and I also can't afford it!

I am only 19 and I can do without this shit in my life. My girl is getting bored with it. My cocks small enough as it is and I can do without not being able to get fully erect so it's even smaller!

If you guys can help at all it would be much appreciated. I will asnwer all questions you have etc. Please help.

Cheers

GrowthSpurts
03-28-05, 02:03 AM
You didn't mention if you get morning woodys.

I would really focus on the kegels, lay off the alcohol (you didn't say if you drank) and smoking.

Do you get more hard when viewing your favourite brand of porn?

Finally, there's always a trip to the doc or urologist if all else fails.

Good luck.

Provider
03-28-05, 06:24 AM
I sometimes get a morning woody but still it's only like 70% erect. It's not a full one!

I rarely drink. Just now and again at weekends if I go out to a club. I don't smoke either. I'm reasonably healthy. I drink loads of water, try to keep fit etc.

Porn seems to do nothing for me anymore. Watching porn is like watching golf for me now.

tbirdy
03-29-05, 05:22 PM
Hey dude. I feel you.

Listen to me : There is one thing that you said that is very very true. A 19 y. shouldn't need viagra or anything else to get 100% excellent erections.
No viagra, No testosterone enhancers , no Penis Enlargement, no pc workouts. No nothing !

Let me give you an advice (I think it will be the best you will get on this entire Forum)

Go to a doctor immidiately (find a specialist a really good/modern one) and insist on a full duplex scan (its called "doppler sonographie" in german.
Don't let anyone fool you or shake you of with phrases like :Here take a viagra/ stop smoking/live with it or sum shit like that.
INSIST on a full duplex. Insist on getting your veins and arteries "extra" checked.

This scan allows the docs to see how much blood is going into the penis and how much is going out. They will also notice "blood leaks". Wich is the most important purpose of this scan. Blood leaks can be from damaged veins (venous leak) or damaged arteries and also directly from the spongy tissue. They all result in the same situation : You have more blood flowing out than in = INCOMPLETE ERECTION.

I'm going through similiar shit like you for 2 years now (and a member nicknamed "hope"). And today I had my dick examined by germanys best urologist. The leading specialist in that area. I made an appointment for tuesday next week and then I will be full duplex examined.

Just as you I tried to exclude all possible variables :
-low testosterone
-low sex drive
-masturbation
- too much Penis Enlargement / not enough Penis Enlargement / excersizes intensity/time
-to much kegels / not enough kegels
- tribulus in all doses and in combination with the others
-viagra in all doses "" ""
-arginine in all doses "" ""
-psychology ( yes I visited a therapist)
-urologist (forget cheap old bastards they want to sell/ you need a specialist urologist)

Yeah sure some of these "attempts @ fixing" did improove my situation. I even kept gaining with Penis Enlargement. But all in all its NEVER a real fix. None of these things brought me back what I used to have naturally before my injury : a THROBBING erection. An erection that was so hard by itself (without any viagra, pe or whatsoever shit) that it pulsated. Each day morning wood that doesn't go down while I shave my beard and brush my teeth EVENTHOUGH there are no sexual feeling/thoughts involved nor is the bladder full with piss. Thats it pure vitality. Youth my friend. I'm only a couple years older than you and I realized I will not live a happy life without my old dick back at full strength.

Oh well I talkin bout myself too much...back to you :

Don't believe those who say: "light jelquing couldn't have caused such a condition, look at me I gained while a jelqued at 120% erection level ! "

I say : They have no fuckin clue. And if they don't want to accept the fact that even the lightest form of jelquing is in reality completely unnatural and CAN be very dangerous to the penis.
The truth about jelquing is : Its not masturbation , its not like fucking, it a complete unique technique.
It is true that jelquing can will result in a bigger dick, however people must realize that it also can will damage dicks permanently. Dicks that wouldn't have been damaged by even exessive masturbation or hardcore sex. Dicks that belong to guys like "provider, hope , myself , and many many others"

My personal opinion is that there is too much instant increasing pressure on the penis and all its tissues because of the "ok sign upward milk technique" - you squeeze at the base after you kegeld even more blood inside than you force this blood and this huge pressure up your shaft (going the anti natural way) with auto-increasing pressure after each mm - this has serious "fuck a dick up" potential if you ask me ?!?!

In my opinion even the lightest form of jelquing is more dangerous than light horse sueezes, or light pumping or any other excersize where the pressure is spread " EVENLY". In truth jelquing is very very advanced and it shouldn't be something a completely unexperienced guys jumps into.

Well, fuck that I think you understand that I'm not a big fan of jelquing like I used to be 2 years ago.


Back to the topic and a REAL FIX for your situation.

As long as you are young and the blood inflow is good. ( wich I'm sure is the case in your case.)

There is a very very good chances of completely recovering.

First step is, finding a real specialist who REALLY understands your problem and doesn't give you "viagra advices"

Next step is the full duplex scan.

I believe in your case its some sort of leak too. The good news is if the leaks can be found the can be shut too.

Venous leaks can be shut by completly removing several veins, thus balancing out the in - outflow to a desired ratio.
Also you can get the veins tightened to lessen the amount of blood that passes through them.
Thats all microsurgery, minimal invasive, you recover really fast and there is potential of complete recoverage by this alone. Again only if the operation is done by a real specialists in cases where not enough or the wrong veins were removed the people developed the same condition a year or two later again after an initial recovery.

The new thing I heard from the german specialist today was that you can also have a blood leak from the erectile/spongy tissue itself. This was a complete surprise for me because I never suspected something / nor have I found some info on that in 2 years of extreme searching for information. Still even that can be fixed by a surgery (again microsurgery, probably stitches or some method to close the leak for good)

I think that I have a mixture of those problems because I had 2 traumas to the penis. 2 years ago I had the first that fucked up my left chamber (most probably due to jelquing and wrong sleeping position) but yet didn't fuck up my erection completely and the other one that fucked up my corpus spongiousum (slipped out duurin cow girl on top) a year ago and along that my throbbing erections.

That is actually the only reason why the specialist cared about helping me out that quick. Its a rare multiple trauma condition + I'm very young (22) and probably looked really upset and frustrated while explaining my situation to him.

When I made a call in order to make the appointment for the meeting the recption bitch said i'll get on the "wait list" and the next possible date is in 4 month. Well then I lied and said I have huge pain and I fear its falling off. then she said: come now then! and there I was. :)

As I said before insist, don't give up , don't let them shake you off, lie, steal, kill if you have to :) (jk)


I'll report back in a week.

Oh and btw. There should be a subforum on this forum with a different name than "booboos and band aids"

Thats like another slap in the face of the poor guy who fucked his dick up with light jelqs. Its not a boo boo its a damn disaster - permanent damage. Yes Penis Enlargement can do that despity of intensity or experience level involved.

Jareth
03-30-05, 03:02 PM
Wow! u really talked bad about peing but u still continue to do it. If i hurt my penis so bad that it wouldnt' get 100percent erect Id be out of the program. I have had similar problems to you guys in that i couldn;t get 100 percent erect even when i was fucking or jackin off. SO i totally stopped the program and continued to have weak erections. I went back to the program and it went back to normal. In my opinion jelging is fairly safe if done correctly as well as pe. I know damage can be done, and iam like the most nervous person when it comes to it. I warm cloth like 10 minutes prior and take hot shower after wards to help reduce injury, but i dont think at all that doing a horse 440 squeeze is any safer for the dick it creates so much more pressure on the chambers than a jelg, plus jelging isn't meant to be done at 100 percent erection where the chambers get bigger up top as you jelg upward like u were saying, its too much pressure on them and your right, object is to just move blood to the head and fill the chambers and getting the right feeling of that took a while. Ive said it in other reply's better scientific study needs to be done before anybody can feel safe with peing, and there really arn't any reliable one's out there which sucks. I would just say don't overdue it Afterall Everyguy can have a huge dick but if it doesn't work than its worthless. The way i see it iam not pornoed dicked but it works so iam happy. Sorry bout your misfortunes guys hope yall get better.

Shafty
03-30-05, 03:54 PM
I've always gotten horrible erectile dysfunction when I've Penis Enlargement'd intensely for a long period of time, particularily if I've tried to do focus heavily on both length AND girth. It worsens gradually up to the point where I can't get any girth work done, which is usually the time when I put Penis Enlargementing on hold to regain proper functioning.

The only thing I can say to console you is that it's only passing. I've been there many, many times, and always gotten my dick back in shape after a break. You should try it, too, and lay off the porn while you're at it. You can only look at pictures or video clips of naked women up to a certain point before you start to become jaded, and lose your arousal over those little details that would normally get you horny.

Provider
03-30-05, 04:16 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I am going to try the following for the next week or two.
- Cut out as much masturbation and sexual stuff as I can (this is fucking hard for me!)
- Cut down on looking at porn
- I'm gonna do something RED posted about hot/cold treatment and also do lots of hot wraps throughout the day
- I'm going to keep doing my kegels
- No Penis Enlargement
- I'll take an Iprobufen every second day

After doing this for a week or two if my erections still aren't back I'll have to go and see a doctor.

REDZULU2003
03-30-05, 04:39 PM
My quick take.
In the current world we live in, I dont think many males [healthy] get as solid erections as they should. STRESS in life and the workplace are main factors. I work LONG BUISY hours and I dont get many erections like I did. Alot of men are like this now. Also the food we eat and liquids we drink are full of alsorts of shit which wont help matters.

Jareth
03-30-05, 10:32 PM
My quick take.
In the current world we live in, I dont think many males [healthy] get as solid erections as they should.
Totally agree i can remember when i was in highschool and i would get multiple bonners just from looking at girls in school. That is when my dick seemed to be the healthiest,

Mosterson
03-31-05, 10:01 PM
Im 20 y/o and I had a HORRIFIC case of impotence about 7 months ago before I did Penis Enlargement. It started when I took some dietary supplements called Ripped Fuel. They basically tell you to take them in addition to your workout regimen to get more "ripped."
Well I started taking them and about a month later I was having a really hard time maintaining, or getting, a 100% erection. In fact 5 minutes into it I was lucky to have 50%.
I immediately stopped taking the pills but it took a good 2 months to get back to regular. To add insult to injury, after the erection problem went away it even lead to a equally horrific case of premature ejaculation........*SIGH* Hard times, hard times

My advice is listen to tbird, go to the doctor, but try to remember to not let it get to you. Take it for what it is and do what you can about it. I realized that I was getting so worked up about the problem that the physical reasons why I got erectile dysfunction now became secondary to new psychological ones.

Do some research on WeBathmated (http://www.weBathmated.com) to get a better understanding on whats goin on.

Hang in there!! It'll go away and you'll be shagging like a crazy bastard in no time :cool:

REDZULU2003
04-01-05, 09:55 AM
Its all right going to the doctor, but they wont just send you to a urologist like that, especially here in the UK. They are more in depth. Stress causes alot of erectile issues, and they will probably talk to the individual first and see how the lifestyle is.
Smokeing, caffeine etc etc. Will advise you to adjust certain things. If your lucky you might get some Viagra, but they dont really prescribe that easy in the UK, its not a cure...its a cover for erectile issues. If issues aint resolved after the chat and any corrections the person could do, than another trip would be due. Than, the doc will probably send you to a urologist.

The point for dragging this up is, that most doctors wont just send you to a urologist straight away....rightfully so to. Theres no need for that, like I keep saying most erectile issues are mental and caused by the hectic world we live in. Not many are actually biological/anatomical...and viagra certainly isnt a cure.

Provider
04-01-05, 11:57 AM
Mine aren't mental at all though, I know a lot of peoples are but my ain't. It's quite clearly due to the girth work I started doing. I don't even have a job, I don't have a stressful lifestyle, I don't smoke, hardly ever drink, I'm healthy etc.

tbirdy
04-01-05, 03:11 PM
"Theres no need for that, like I keep saying most erectile issues are mental and caused by the hectic world we live in."

Red get your facts straight. Truth is 70% of all erectile problems are organic .

I don't argue about stress. Yes its also a huge erection+libido killer. But nonetheless most often its a blood flow issue (either not enough flowing in or too much flowing out) or nerve damage. The older you get the more often its organic.

Jareth "Wow! u really talked bad about peing but u still continue to do it. If i hurt my penis so bad that it wouldnt' get 100percent erect Id be out of the program."

--Jareth man you really need to stfu and get off my dick man. What is your point in your post ? Pretend that I'm stupid and don't know howto jelq ? I was there at the very very first Penis Enlargement forums long time before MOS or thunders or zillion other Penis Enlargement sites. I know every Penis Enlargement excersize out there and each and every variation of them.

"In my opinion jelging is fairly safe if done correctly as well as pe." Well In my opinion its not. Member hope did a couple minutes of them , very very light and lost his throb forever. Wtf you think he is stupid too ? Do you you think he and I jumped into it ? Read again what posted and read between the lines.

"but i dont think at all that doing a horse 440 squeeze is any safer for the dick it creates so much more pressure on the chambers than a jelg,"

Oh really ? Actually there is no differnece in maximum pressure because the pressure changes with the intensity of the grip. The difference is however that with jelquing you always have increasing pressure and with horses you "CAN" have increasing pressure but you also can just squeeze lightly then stop and hold a constant pressure on all chambers wich is evenly spread. In my book thats much safer.

"I went back to the program and it went back to normal."

Good for you. When the dick is broke it doesn't matter how much you take off, it will never get back to normal.


"Wow! u really talked bad about peing but u still continue to do it. If i hurt my penis so bad that it wouldnt' get 100percent erect Id be out of the program."

Again think before you talk.
As I said before, even now the penis blood circulation isn't fully researched. Back then I didn't know about venous leaks, damaged valves or leaking erectile tissue. What I did know was that Penis Enlargement can give you a bigger dick. And after I fucked up my left chamber and got a frikkin 30° deviation to the left I WAS FUCKIN DESPenis EnlargementRATE to restore what I lost. Everyone knew back than that surgery is not an option and that it will fuck up the penis or shorten it.
Penis Enlargement did help me to completely fight of the deviation, its completly straight now. And Penis Enlargement helped me to rebuild the left chamber nearly as good as it was. Along the way I gained so why should I have stopped and "ran" away ? I'm not the man who runs away. I face the problem and try to find a solution.I even invented my own unique ("fix uneven chambers technique"- wich helped a couple guys here too) If i DID ran away I'd have a 7x5 crooked unevenly shaped dick WITH medium erectile disfunction right now. What I DO have is : 8 x 5,5 perfectly shaped monster with erectile disfunction (as in not as hard as it used to be without viagra) + a cs that doesn't fill up completly.
If thedoc restores bloodflow to my cs and fixes the blood leaks wich I'm sure he can do I will be 8 x 5.8 and sure as hell will stop atleast for 6 month - 1 year to let everything heal completely. Then I'll restart with a very very light pumping routine to get to slid 8.2 nbp and 6.2 erect girth and then retire forever.

I never talked bad about Penis Enlargement I always tried to show "naive" members that it has 2 sides to it and that you ONLY HAVE ONE DICK !

If a new member joins this forum (mostly a young guy) and talks about increasing his 7.5 x 5.5 and get to 10 x 7 overnight I will warn him and guide him to the "injury section" so he gets his mind up and fuckin reads and researches a couple of month before he starts with a very light routine. or better yet firstly learns the do's and don'ts of a given excersize and sees how his body reacts to it.

In fact the injury section should be on top of this forum AND THE FIRST MUST READ FOR ANY NEW MEMBER. Just to make sure that they don't repeat other peoples mistakes.

Oh and while I'm at it. I want to share my own theory on Penis Enlargement and who should Penis Enlargement and who shouldn't . Its based on personal experience and observation.

I will talk about girth workout only because. Stretching will work for each and every type of dick if done correctly.

The problem with girth is : You need to have the type of dick that is more likely to gain girth WITHOUT loosing erection hardness (while you are at it) or get erectile disfunction later once you quit your Penis Enlargement journy.

The only dick that has the best chances to get out large AND hard is the one with the least topical visible veins / small , tiny , thin topical veins (low amount), thin deep dorsal vein.
Also good is : Thick deep dorsal vein but no visble or thick veins anywhere else.

WHy `? Simple, because of the fact that veins mean blood outflow and the more veins you have and the larger they are the more and quicker the bloodoutflow.

My observation that got me thinking about this was that out of all porn vids or pictures I've seen (plenty of em) the guys with the least veins have the hardest looking erections, shiniest heads, roundest chambers, most pronounced CS chambers, and best erection angles.

So what has that to do with Penis Enlargement ?
Again , simple. Penis Enlargement and some excersizes (like the jelq, or constrictors, fuck it basically every girth excersize) will increase the size of the veins , and sometimes even make veins pop out where you couldn't see any before. (thas not because Penis Enlargement grows new ones , its because small , tiny veins become permanently enlarged, or defect .)
This is permanent after a given time !!!

Now I theorize that If you are lucky you ALSO increase the amount of blood that can pass through your arteries by enlarging the arteries through Penis Enlargement,thus keep a balanced inflow-outflow-ratio=hard dick. (The arteries are deep within the chambers and only 2 are on top, tiny ones though)

What I fear and what I observed is : The enlarging of these very arteries is NOT permanent. So once you are of Penis Enlargement , they return to normal size BUT you have fucked up, larger than life veins now and a newly found erectile disfunction wich hinders you from showing off your gains because your dick won't fill up completely. viagra for life !

For me this totally explains why some guys come here with low erection quality and once they get on a good routine they get much harder erections (better arteries). As long as they stay with Penis Enlargement they will continue to grow and keep the hardness (atleast for some time). Their best hardness days are "girth workout days" and off days. However once they quit they get floppy dicks again---> so hooked for life on Penis Enlargement, because Penis Enlargement didn't really FIX their obviously organic issue (inflow outflow) - it just masked them temporary

Ok enough bad case scenarios.

If you have no topical, visible veins , and don't develope these at your routine I think you have the best chances to get really thick AND remain hard forever without viagra.

Examples that come to mind are "the ugly ramon bang bus dude" if its not some secret brazilian surgery then it must be mother nature.
His dick ALWAYS looks mighty hard it fills up from top to bottom , has huge round chambers. He has like ONLY one really visble vein on top of his dick (probably the dorsal one) however no veins at all at the sides or bottom of his dick. (some really tiny brunched ones show up when he tries to squeeze his thick stick into tiny asses- but thats about it)
Naturally I believe he is exactly 8-8,5 x 6" and the amazing thing is the girth is like that from base to top pretty evenly.
He has a very tiny had , wich only adds to the illusion of him being longer than he really is (other people guess him at 9"-9,5 wich is bullshit) In fact he DOES have more dick than others shaft wise. YOu can compare another 8x6 dick with him with less width/more depth and a bigger (longer head) and ramon will look alot larger because he has more shaft.
Pumped , I put him @ 8.5 x 6.2-6.4. And he sure as hells pumps alot and often. Good thing is he still looks hard with his pumped dick because he has so few veins that the blood in flow is always enough to create enough pressure for a hard dick.

Another example is a dude (don't know his name ) from "all internal" he got huge girth and that 2 dicks weilded together look. Looks MONSTER and very very hard, very pronounced CS and no veins at all. Go figure.


Ok last but not least. So you all don't attack me:

I'm not saying that you should stop Penis Enlargement-girth if you happen to have alot of veins or that you shouldn't start with it in the first place.
I'm also very aware of the possible existence of they guy who has lots of big bulging veins and SO GOOD arterie inflow (due to big arteries or very very good circulation, or blood pressure or whatever) that he will keep his hardness no matter the amount of new veins he developes or destroys. I guess that rare though and You can't count on it.

Just keep that stuff in mind and keep a close look on your dick hardness.

I myself started with one single visible vein on top and not a single visble vein anywhere else, made huge fast girth gains and developed more and more veins along the journey. No I have veins that are big and don't go away no matter how much I take off, my best hardness days are when I do girthwork , wait 1 or 2 days and do it again and when I take viagra :(. The worst days are when I do alot of girthwork then pause...its really horrible once the good off days phase is gone ..then it slowly returns to a state where I have hard erections for sex as long as most of my body is higher than my dick (doggystyle, missionary) and its really shitty medium hard or less @ woman on top positions (wich is the main reason why my girl is never on top)
No spontanious erections, rare morning wood (mostly only when I took viagra the day before), dick needs constant stimulation to remain really hard , I have huge strength in my pc muscles because I'm like aways on the edge of cumming and holding off at the same time ( to remain very hard) I can brake off every orgasm and ejacualtion.
But that shit just upsets me.
I actually don't want to use my pc muscles at all duuring sex. And I want to do woman on top , and hell I want my throb back. Wish me luck yall in 4 days I'll get a needle in my dick with prostaglandine and a full duplex scan :( hopefully they can come up with a good solution !!!! I pray they do.

Jareth
04-01-05, 06:12 PM
"Theres no need for that, like I keep saying most erectile issues are mental and caused by the hectic world we live in."

Red get your facts straight. Truth is 70% of all erectile problems are organic .

I don't argue about stress. Yes its also a huge erection+libido killer. But nonetheless most often its a blood flow issue (either not enough flowing in or too much flowing out) or nerve damage. The older you get the more often its organic.

Jareth "Wow! u really talked bad about peing but u still continue to do it. If i hurt my penis so bad that it wouldnt' get 100percent erect Id be out of the program."

--Jareth man you really need to stfu and get off my dick man. What is your point in your post ? Pretend that I'm stupid and don't know howto jelq ? I was there at the very very first Penis Enlargement forums long time before MOS or thunders or zillion other Penis Enlargement sites. I know every Penis Enlargement excersize out there and each and every variation of them.

"In my opinion jelging is fairly safe if done correctly as well as pe." Well In my opinion its not. Member hope did a couple minutes of them , very very light and lost his throb forever. Wtf you think he is stupid too ? Do you you think he and I jumped into it ? Read again what posted and read between the lines.

"but i dont think at all that doing a horse 440 squeeze is any safer for the dick it creates so much more pressure on the chambers than a jelg,"

Oh really ? Actually there is no differnece in maximum pressure because the pressure changes with the intensity of the grip. The difference is however that with jelquing you always have increasing pressure and with horses you "CAN" have increasing pressure but you also can just squeeze lightly then stop and hold a constant pressure on all chambers wich is evenly spread. In my book thats much safer.

"I went back to the program and it went back to normal."

Good for you. When the dick is broke it doesn't matter how much you take off, it will never get back to normal.


"Wow! u really talked bad about peing but u still continue to do it. If i hurt my penis so bad that it wouldnt' get 100percent erect Id be out of the program."

Again think before you talk.
As I said before, even now the penis blood circulation isn't fully researched. Back then I didn't know about venous leaks, damaged valves or leaking erectile tissue. What I did know was that Penis Enlargement can give you a bigger dick. And after I fucked up my left chamber and got a frikkin 30° deviation to the left I WAS FUCKIN DESPenis EnlargementRATE to restore what I lost. Everyone knew back than that surgery is not an option and that it will fuck up the penis or shorten it.
Penis Enlargement did help me to completely fight of the deviation, its completly straight now. And Penis Enlargement helped me to rebuild the left chamber nearly as good as it was. Along the way I gained so why should I have stopped and "ran" away ? I'm not the man who runs away. I face the problem and try to find a solution.I even invented my own unique ("fix uneven chambers technique"- wich helped a couple guys here too) If i DID ran away I'd have a 7x5 crooked unevenly shaped dick WITH medium erectile disfunction right now. What I DO have is : 8 x 5,5 perfectly shaped monster with erectile disfunction (as in not as hard as it used to be without viagra) + a cs that doesn't fill up completly.
If thedoc restores bloodflow to my cs and fixes the blood leaks wich I'm sure he can do I will be 8 x 5.8 and sure as hell will stop atleast for 6 month - 1 year to let everything heal completely. Then I'll restart with a very very light pumping routine to get to slid 8.2 nbp and 6.2 erect girth and then retire forever.

I never talked bad about Penis Enlargement I always tried to show "naive" members that it has 2 sides to it and that you ONLY HAVE ONE DICK !

If a new member joins this forum (mostly a young guy) and talks about increasing his 7.5 x 5.5 and get to 10 x 7 overnight I will warn him and guide him to the "injury section" so he gets his mind up and fuckin reads and researches a couple of month before he starts with a very light routine. or better yet firstly learns the do's and don'ts of a given excersize and sees how his body reacts to it.

In fact the injury section should be on top of this forum AND THE FIRST MUST READ FOR ANY NEW MEMBER. Just to make sure that they don't repeat other peoples mistakes.

Oh and while I'm at it. I want to share my own theory on Penis Enlargement and who should Penis Enlargement and who shouldn't . Its based on personal experience and observation.

I will talk about girth workout only because. Stretching will work for each and every type of dick if done correctly.

The problem with girth is : You need to have the type of dick that is more likely to gain girth WITHOUT loosing erection hardness (while you are at it) or get erectile disfunction later once you quit your Penis Enlargement journy.

The only dick that has the best chances to get out large AND hard is the one with the least topical visible veins / small , tiny , thin topical veins (low amount), thin deep dorsal vein.
Also good is : Thick deep dorsal vein but no visble or thick veins anywhere else.
Wow dude relax. I didn't mean to offend u at all. When i started this program and any other program that i have looked at the main exercise was the basic wet jelg, and from what i have read it seemed to be the safest exercise out there for penis enlargement. The reason i said horses caused more pressure on the dong was because of personal experience. When i did horses i would get red dots and actually beable to feel my dick expanding, unlike when i do jelgs. Believe me i know i only have ONE DICK thats exactly why i don't wanna hurt myself, no hanging, pumping, clamping etc just because to me they seem to risky. I told u i was nervous as hell and don't ever wanna hurt myself, I dont know why u would attack me and think i was critiscizing u or calling u dumb but again i apologize. U have had a serious injury and that again sucks. Id like to know a little more about the routine you are on as it seems to me u hurt your self, and rehabed it as u have said. Well id like to skip a step which is hurting myself and move right to the point of gaining without worrying or getting a injury. If this includes quitting jelging than so be it. When u said u hurt your right chamber and got a 30 deviation what exactly did u mean it hung to the side than or u got a gap in your dick? I have noticed when flaccid my dick hangs to the right now, but when i am errect it is strait as an arrow and up could this hang be from jelging? Any recommendations, or thoughts would be highly appreciated because i only got one dick and I aint trying to lose it. Oh ya i didn't mean to come off saying you didn't know how to jelg was just stating that alout of peps do 100 percent jelgs and i don't think its the proper way to do it thats all bro.

REDZULU2003
04-01-05, 07:01 PM
Look Birdy, I'm just looking into other areas here and from actual facts.
It isnt all organic, alot is mental to.
I aint saying anyone is mental or weak etc etc but alot of erection issues come from that. Provider, I hope you dont take what I said the wrong way. I'm merely trying to explain other avenues, it isnt all doom and gloom with injurys from actual pe.
Your injury probably is a pe related one, your statement in your last post would suggest that. Do what you were going to do, if it carrys on than see the doctor...I dont think he will send you to a urologist right away. They aint always the answer, just fill your head with more questions than answers and most aint much use. Only some are like really good, so if your in a private sceem such as BUPA than go into that and see one. I hope it works well for you man, goodluck and keep us informed.

tbirdy
04-02-05, 07:30 AM
@Jareth

The deviation was to the left side, and it was the left chamber that broke somehow.
Best way to describe it is , compare it to a bike tire. When a bike tire is fully pumped , its perfectly round and thats exactly what a perfect chamber looks like (side).
After the first injury the left chamber looked deflated and somehow inverted insted of this being my chambers :

() this were my chambers from then on: )).

The right one was still intact and together with the CS it was the backbone of my erections. The harder the right side got the better it straightened out the left chamber. logic.

I did alot of V-Stretching to the right with the middle weakest point of the left chamber being the fulcrum point for the v-stretch.

After month this brought me back to something like this :

|)

The shortening of the left chamber was cured and they were equal sized now. At 100% erection the dick was perfectly straight now. (though the chambers weren't equal girthwize)
Because of the chamber girth difference (remember I lost lots of girth in the left chamber from the injury)

The dick would still bend to the left when semi erect and also tilt a little to the left when flaccid. To cure this condition, I did only left chamber girth workouts , like BENDS against the left side. Wich helped alot. And lastly I developed
cure uneven chambers technique (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14884)


Somehwere inbetween I had the 2 injury wich fucked my 3 chamber the CS and fucked my throb and natural hardness completely. Still I didn't stop got loads of viagra and continued the girth workouts for the left chamber.

wich finally brought me back to ().

I get all crazy and sour and bitter and mad when I think about where I would be by now if my dick didn't get messed up. I think it would be atleast 8.5 x 6.5. I was and still am such a good gainer. Damn its a damn shame and bad luck :(

Lately I bought an expensive pump and did a simple short routine like every other day and started gaining again. Lenght exploded and so did girth , however only duuring workouts I could see the gains (on viagra and shit) without the pump and viagra I simply couldn't build up enough internal pressure to fill out my real girth size.

Again at the same time I researched alot and found useful information on veins, arteries , penis ligation surgery, revascularisation surgery and so on.

I decided it makes no fuckin sense to gain more and more length + girth without the ability to fill it out with nuff blood.

That is why I got through to the specialist and I PRAY TO HEAVEN AND ABOVE that its really vein leakage or some sort of fixable closeable leakage.
Incase its torn or scarred erectile muscle cell ( erectile tissue , then there is no hope of completely recovering. Then I'll just ask them to cut/remove/ligate/narrow as many veins as they can so the balance of flow is in my favour as much as possible.
Besides there is lots of risk involved with surgery and even the examination but I'm willing to take it, I know I will not live a happy life if I don't take that chance.

Oh and look Jareth. I understand your point and that you didn't want to attack me. You choice of words probably appealed bad to me and when you spoke about my injury it got to my heart really quick. I think you can understand that too.

I never looked for beef on this forum nor flame wars its all a waste of time and energy, like that retarted olympic running joke. We still retarted even if we win , right ? :)
I call it quits.
btw I do like your view on "safe dick enlarging" if you want to go for safe to the fullest , let me share another conclusion that comes from experience.

Remember I tried each and every girth/length excersize out there on myself and must admit some excersize have the potential to deliver very quick results. Like horse squeezes, or slow squash jelqs ,bends, constrictors and so on. At the same time they have a high injury potential all because the pressure isn't equally spread and the way you grip isn't constant. There is no way to measure your grip on a horse squeeze , its always a matter of "feeling it" and findin what works for you. Thats why Penis Enlargement is so individual to everybody and so are the gains and the injurys.

If you don't care about time like I don't anymore and your main focus is just gaining no matter how long it takes then I can only advise the safest method and routine , wich is pumping.

Yes horses and bends deliver results quicker. YOu probably could add 1" girth in 6 month with the right routine and no injurys.

Pumping delivers results too , only much much slower. I guess you would need 1.5-2 years of a constant pumping routine to add 1" girth. Pumping is very very safe though. Its the only excersize with most even pressure force on all parts of the dick. Its absolutely even.

ALl you need is an expensive 100$ and above pump WITH A PRESSURE GAUGE. Thats most important, it must have that gauge so you can SEE what you do to your dick and not just feel it. At that price they mostly have quality tubes too.

All you ever have to do is 10 minutes of constant pumping at 4-6 gh every other day @ 80-90% constant erection, lubed up and warmed up prior to the work out. THATS IT! with a time frame of 2 years and a constant dedication to the above mentioned routine YOU WILL GAIN lots of length and girth while keeping it safe at the same time.
With the above mentioned routine there is hardly any fluid build up involved , no excessive stress on the tissues, always enough time to heal (48hours!), yet always maximum expansion and as an added extra bonus you quickly get the pumped look = big temporary gains. These will be permanent after month and years.

Ok Thats all I got to say right now. Wish me luck.

Jareth
04-02-05, 03:33 PM
I understand Tbirdy my words attacked you and i just wanted to clear things up. The advice is very intresting. I have a pump but never use it because i thought it was bad for the dick. To i guess make may situation more understanding, I say this iam not givin a shit if i get a 10 inch dick in 10 days if its unsafe. Iam not nearly as large as you about 6.5 length but iam happy because my dick works, I started at under 6 so i have gained but i wouldnt' mind being around 8 inches. I take it slow just stretches front left and right, 10 minute light wet jelg, some horrizontal movement and usually will try some horses but they don't feel right sometimes so i stop, when i used to use my cock ring with these they worked the best. The fact of the matter is Eversince i have started pe i have noticed differences to my dick, groin, balls, etc. Most good but sometimes i get that dam problem where i can't get hard, or aint really feeling horney, Now i don't know if its from pe, havin the same girlfriend, stress or lookin at too much porn. But the fact is I always think its from pe and that makes me nervous. I can get hard 100 percent strait (My flaccid hangs to the right though but i dont think its a injury) but i still every now and than have about a week or so where iam not horney, and no bonners. Iam goin through it now but I think its because I quit my job and got a new one and iam havin 2nd thoughts about it now Stress related i figure. When iam flaccid i also notice that my right chamber i guess sometimes looks like it has a indent on it, but when iam hard its even so i think its ok. Iam gonna look at your chamber restore, When u get some more time fill me in on different shit and Advice. THANKS MAN

lamplight
04-08-05, 10:38 AM
WOW!

This thread really freaked me out.. I haven't really been doing too much girthwork during my Penis Enlargement career, just now and again because of all the fuss about it. But this week i decided to start proper, because a lot of people said i would loose girth when streching. I've done 3 so far this week, but after reading this I wonder if I should quit and just focus on stretching?

I also notice that i fall under the "veiny" penis category, and have been noticing lately the vein getting a little thicker.. If it were up to me i would quit the girthwork all together, seeing as i was happy with my starting girth, but that's where I don't know what to do.

I know people say that you loose girth by just soing streching, but does that apply to your starting girth aswell? Cause i've gained quite a bit in length, doing minimal girthwork, and the measuringtape still says 16cm (6,3").

Anyone have any opinons on how doing just streching will affect my starting girth? I kinda wanna quit jelqing while my dick still works fine...

Jareth
04-09-05, 05:10 PM
There's alout of big dicks that are veiny as hell. If u gained almost an inch and a half and havent lost any girth just stayed the same it makes sense to me your actually gaining girth as well. If u stopped stretching and just stuck to girth bet u would gain. THe whole veiny dick thing is confusing to me I like veins and when they get bigger and pumped it means better blood flow. Besides they work as a sex stimulant to woman.

Cockolution
04-09-05, 06:17 PM
Now if the veins aren't topical....they are still there underneath the skin...and they should still be enlarging...correct?

Or am I wrong?

If anyone could shed further light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

doublelongdaddy
04-10-05, 12:34 PM
Now if the veins aren't topical....they are still there underneath the skin...and they should still be enlarging...correct?

Or am I wrong?

If anyone could shed further light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Yes they are enlarging. All internal structures are effected by Penis Enlargement is different ways. When you are stretching veins, arteries and capillaries are elongating but during girth work, where maximum expansion is achieved, these same structures are becoming thicker.

Jareth
04-11-05, 05:36 PM
Yes they are enlarging. All internal structures are effected by Penis Enlargement is different ways. When you are stretching veins, arteries and capillaries are elongating but during girth work, where maximum expansion is achieved, these same structures are becoming thicker.
So is it good to get bigger veins and show more of them or is it bad, b/c i like the veins i get from peing cant see it bein bad??? don't know though

Provider
04-11-05, 06:12 PM
My erections still haven't come back properly. I think it is definately damaged. I have made a doctors appointment and I see him on Friday. Wish me luck!

REDZULU2003
04-11-05, 08:09 PM
Goodluck mate, I hope it goes alright.
Dont tell him you done Penis Enlargement, just say you have rough sex etc.
I think it might heal by itself with time, dont think its permanent...dont worry man.

Provider
04-15-05, 08:10 PM
So...I saw the doctor earlier this afternoon and he looked at it and he couldn't really do much about it so he's referring me to a urologist at the hospital so I'll have to wait to hear about an appointment. I hope I get it soon cause this is really starting to piss me off now.

Jareth
04-15-05, 08:34 PM
So...I saw the doctor earlier this afternoon and he looked at it and he couldn't really do much about it so he's referring me to a urologist at the hospital so I'll have to wait to hear about an appointment. I hope I get it soon cause this is really starting to piss me off now.
So what did u tell the doctor? Did u tell him it was from peing, if not you should ask the urologist and tell him honestly how you hurt it and let us know his thoughts on pe and the injury

Provider
04-16-05, 09:42 AM
LOL, nah I couldn't say it to the doctor man, would just sound too weird. I just kinda played it dumb. I'll think about telling the urologist, depends on the mood and the moment.

tbirdy
04-19-05, 12:15 PM
my reply :

Thread on first page (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17636)

Jareth
04-21-05, 05:36 PM
LOL, nah I couldn't say it to the doctor man, would just sound too weird. I just kinda played it dumb. I'll think about telling the urologist, depends on the mood and the moment.
yep don't think many people have the balls to ask i don't really either but one time i did ask the doc what he thought and he didnt even understand what i was talkin bout not much help.

Jareth
04-21-05, 05:36 PM
my reply :

Thread on first page (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17636)
Man i tried to read through all that and it was just to darn confusing, you find a way to put it in dummy terms and sum it all up let me know.

irv
04-26-05, 06:26 AM
Hi Provider, how are things? Have your erections improved, did the doctor prescribe you something? I'm really interested in this because my erections aren't as good as they used to be as well.

I've been taking a Penis Enlargement break since 18th april and things havent improved much yet. I'm really concerned now and skeptical about the whole Penis Enlargement thing (fucking up veins and stuff).

Provider
04-26-05, 10:44 AM
Hey irv!
Well the doctor said he'd be refering me to a urologist at the hospital but I haven't heard anything from anyone about it yet which is annoying. Wish they would hurry up!

My erections are still pretty damn shit and thats been over 2 months now! Reading tbirdy's stuff has got me worried. I hope to god it's nothing like that.

irv
04-26-05, 11:14 AM
Over 2 months already ... that's not looking all too good. I agree, tbirdy's posts were quite disturbing and this vein enlarging thing sounds very plausible to me. Keep us updated and good luck!

Provider
04-27-05, 12:10 PM
I got a letter today from the hospital and I have an appointment with the urologist but guess when it is!!! 2nd of August!

So looks like I'm going to have to wait another 3 months before I even get seen. I think I'll phone the appointment line and see if I can get the date brought forward because that is a hell of a time to wait with my dick like this.

Jareth
04-27-05, 05:00 PM
Over 2 months already ... that's not looking all too good. I agree, tbirdy's posts were quite disturbing and this vein enlarging thing sounds very plausible to me. Keep us updated and good luck!
I read alout of that also and didn't understand a dam thing. I asked him a question about the whole chamber fixing thing and he gave me his thread, i read it and asked him a question again and he never got back to me. I noticed in his thread he said something like he had been exercising for like three months and the night he hurt himself he was doing a total of one hour 100 percent erect jelging, from how i understand it pe should be done a max of 35-40 minutes including stretching, jelging etc thats alout of jelging an hour so maybe thats why he hurt himself. Ive never even jelged at 100 percent for me my dick is too hard and i can't move the blood but i bet it creates alout of pressure on the dick if done that way probly not the best way to jelg. Anyways I dont know much about veins and all that stuff he was talkin bout but i thought increase in veins was a good thing, when u build muscle veins increase maybe its bad on the dick i don't know. Hope he checks in again to give us laymans terms on the whole vein thing.

Provider
05-04-05, 01:28 PM
I phoned the hospital to try and get seen sooner. They said they can't move me forward and thats how long the waiting list is. I'm pretty pissed off

Sonar
05-18-05, 04:39 AM
Wow man, i'm very sorry to hear that... Just within the last 2 1/2 months or so I have had trouble with my erection I guess, sometimes it would just not get hard right when I needed it to. Now that I have been doing Penis Enlargement for the last 3 weeks very religiously, it feels like they have been getting very stronger. I guess its because of all the stress i've been having lately though. I'm on probation, I HAVE to find a new job or I go back to jail, I have a $26,000 fine to pay, my gf has really been stressin me out with all our fighting and problems lately, my brother keeps going to the hospital for overdosing on drugs, my mom and her bf are constantly yelling and fighting, all this and im only 20.... I think it was probablly just really bad stress and I drank quite a bit.

I really dont know exactly what the more advanced Penis Enlargement stuff is that you guys have been talking about, all I do is streches, wet / dry jelqs, this little thing I got off thunders called sadsac slinky thats suppossed to do great on your girth, kegels, and I use an extender for around 6-8 hours a day. Now that I have read this I dont think i'm going to get into anything else other then what its gonna take to get more length. i'm already 5.5 in girth and all I want is an 8x6 anyways, so hopefully I dont have to get into the shit you guys are doing, it doesnt sound worth it, having to take viagra and not getting good erections the rest of my life.

Really though, that sucks man, I feel for ya. For the past 3 weeks though I have been getting really great erections so i'm happy, but good luck to you man, and if anything you should just call other places or I think they have places where you can just go in and see someone about it. You should look around, cuz august is way too damn far away. Theres all your summer sex bye bye. Sorry to hear that man. <:(

Jareth
05-18-05, 08:27 PM
Wow man, i'm very sorry to hear that... Just within the last 2 1/2 months or so I have had trouble with my erection I guess, sometimes it would just not get hard right when I needed it to. Now that I have been doing Penis Enlargement for the last 3 weeks very religiously, it feels like they have been getting very stronger. I guess its because of all the stress i've been having lately though. I'm on probation, I HAVE to find a new job or I go back to jail, I have a $26,000 fine to pay, my gf has really been stressin me out with all our fighting and problems lately, my brother keeps going to the hospital for overdosing on drugs, my mom and her bf are constantly yelling and fighting, all this and im only 20.... I think it was probablly just really bad stress and I drank quite a bit.

I really dont know exactly what the more advanced Penis Enlargement stuff is that you guys have been talking about, all I do is streches, wet / dry jelqs, this little thing I got off thunders called sadsac slinky thats suppossed to do great on your girth, kegels, and I use an extender for around 6-8 hours a day. Now that I have read this I dont think i'm going to get into anything else other then what its gonna take to get more length. i'm already 5.5 in girth and all I want is an 8x6 anyways, so hopefully I dont have to get into the shit you guys are doing, it doesnt sound worth it, having to take viagra and not getting good erections the rest of my life.

Really though, that sucks man, I feel for ya. For the past 3 weeks though I have been getting really great erections so i'm happy, but good luck to you man, and if anything you should just call other places or I think they have places where you can just go in and see someone about it. You should look around, cuz august is way too damn far away. Theres all your summer sex bye bye. Sorry to hear that man. <:(iam sure you have had erection problems from the stress and drinkin. When i was finishin school i had plenty of stress and couldn't get a bonner. I drink alout still and smoke chronic and if i quite those my gains and bonners would be way up, different drugs will effect your erections especially stimulants like cocaine. Keep doin what your doin all i do is stretch jelg and little girth exercises and kegels and ive made decent gains, what exercise did u get from thunders how do u do it?? Sory to hear bout your family man.

orbital
07-01-05, 04:54 PM
I've been reading a lot of Tbirdy's stuff, and I'm kicking some ideas and theories around in my head.

First of all, in some of the sights I've read, including this one, references to other parts of the body that can be manually enlarged through consistent stretching are sometimes made. DLD references ear lobes, another site references women from south-east asia (I think) who stack rings on their neck and lengthen their necks to outrageous proportions. I take immediate logical issue with both of these.

The earlobe example is a poor analogy because of the nature of earlobed tissue compared to the tissue in the penis. I only know some of the details of both, but the function and complexity of the earlobe is nowhere near the function and complexity of the penis. The earlobes are soft tissue that don't naturally dilate via a complex process. The penis, of course, has a wide variety of tissues and structures. Also, more simply speaking, just because one part of the body can be enlarged (but who wants to have massive, hanging earlobes?) doesn't mean all parts can be.

The myanmar women who lengthen their neck with rings is a horrible analogy because the rings cause extensive muscular and skeletal deformities. I'll post directly from a website:

A Padaung woman from Loikaw, eastern Myanmar (formerly Burma). The Padaung people number only about 7,000 but have become widely known for their custom of neck-stretching. The neck rings confer status and respect on the wearer’s family, and must be worn for life. Their removal as a punisHydromaxent for adultery is particularly cruel, as the skeletal and muscular deformities that have resulted from years of wearing them mean that the woman has to spend the rest of her life lying down, or try to find some other support for her neck.

I doubt many people are interested in lengthening their penis to the point of causing massive deformities, so this analogy is also poor.

I'm thinking now that the same alterations to tissues that can increase penis size are the same that can cause erectile dysfunction or deformities. None of us really know how the tissues in our penises respond to jelquing or stretching. Instead of rebuilding after being damaged, perhaps the tissues are replaced with scar tissue that doesn't function like undamaged tissue does. I think penis enlargement is extremely risky and perhaps outright destructive.

Bib
07-02-05, 03:30 PM
orbital,

I have been on three different Penis Enlargement boards for over seven years. I have read the Penis Enlargement experiences of thousands of guys. The vast majority are successful, with better erection quality after Penis Enlargement. There are very few cases of poor erection quality after Penis Enlargement.

In those few cases, it seems the causes of the problems are found in three areas. Either the guys were using ill designed equipment which was directly responsible for their problems. Or they did not educate themselves, and used techniques which were ill advised, or that they were not conditioned for. Or they used amounts of stress which were greater than simple tissue deformation, and lead to injury. But once again, these cases are few and far between.

For example, many guys have tried loop type hangers, placing pressure on the nerve bundles behind the top of the head. They loose erection quality. This has been documented many times. However, many guys still try loop type hangers from time to time.

Having said all of that, Penis Enlargement is a risk, and everyone should know the risks before they start. If they wish to encounter the risks, they should learn as much as possible to decrease the risk of injury.

Bigger

Bib
07-02-05, 03:32 PM
Forgot to say: The use of stresses upon tissues to be enlarged or grown is well known, and the evidence great. Further, injury (tearing) produces scar tissue. In Penis Enlargement, the goal is controlled damage, not tearing.

Bigger

orbital
07-02-05, 03:40 PM
Well, I'm glad most people are succeeding with their routines. Maybe my problem can be fixed after all!

Bib, recognize your name. I definitely respect your years of experience and familiarity with the subject. I'm pessimistic right now. I have an appointment with a (good, hopefully) urologist on the 13th. Maybe its just some veinous leakage. Wish me luck!

Baraka
07-02-05, 04:54 PM
I can't believe I never wrote anything in this thread before now. Here goes...


The only dick that has the best chances to get out large AND hard is the one with the least topical visible veins / small , tiny , thin topical veins (low amount), thin deep dorsal vein.
Also good is : Thick deep dorsal vein but no visble or thick veins anywhere else.tbirdy, I think you're getting mixed up between the definitions of "veins" and "arteries". Veins carry blood away from appendages and to the heart. Arteries carry blood to appendages and from the heart. Both are equally important in creating and sustaining healthy erections.


WHy `? Simple, because of the fact that veins mean blood outflow and the more veins you have and the larger they are the more and quicker the bloodoutflow.Okay, but what if the penile arteries are larger than the corresponding veins?


My observation that got me thinking about this was that out of all porn vids or pictures I've seen (plenty of em) the guys with the least veins have the hardest looking erections, shiniest heads, roundest chambers, most pronounced CS chambers, and best erection angles.Well, I've also seen a lot of porn and I completely disagree. There are tons of guys out there with veiny cocks who can get diamond-cutting hard. I've seen more black cocks than white cocks with all those veins, but they all seem to be able to get very hard. Plus, all of our observations are probably being severely distorted by all that Viagra everyone takes.


So what has that to do with Penis Enlargement ?
Again , simple. Penis Enlargement and some excersizes (like the jelq, or constrictors, fuck it basically every girth excersize) will increase the size of the veins , and sometimes even make veins pop out where you couldn't see any before. (thas not because Penis Enlargement grows new ones , its because small , tiny veins become permanently enlarged, or defect .)
This is permanent after a given time !!!So what? A healthy erection benefits from larger veins because they can more efficiently cycle out "old" blood- the blood that's been depleted of oxygen and nutrients. The arteries will then bring in new blood. Circulation is the name of the game, after all.


Now I theorize that If you are lucky you ALSO increase the amount of blood that can pass through your arteries by enlarging the arteries through Penis Enlargement,thus keep a balanced inflow-outflow-ratio=hard dick. (The arteries are deep within the chambers and only 2 are on top, tiny ones though)I'm sorry, but you're way off on this one. Then again, it's not your fault, since almost all medical diagrams of the penis circulatory system make the veins much larger than the arteries. But I assume that you're talking about the two dorsal arteries when you say "The arteries are deep within the chambers and only 2 are on top, tiny ones though". Well, my two dorsal arteries are the largest vessels in my cock. Both are more than a quarter-inch thick. My erections have gotten harder and harder as my circulatory system has been built up through years of inconsistent Penis Enlargement. The hardness and engorgement right now beats anything I could manage during the peak of my teens. Kinda turns your entire argument upside down and inside out, eh? ;)


What I fear and what I observed is : The enlarging of these very arteries is NOT permanent. So once you are of Penis Enlargement , they return to normal size BUT you have fucked up, larger than life veins now and a newly found erectile disfunction wich hinders you from showing off your gains because your dick won't fill up completely. viagra for life !If this is true, then how come my two dorsal arteries have never decreased in size over the years, despite my sometimes avoiding Penis Enlargement completely for months at a time? And I guess I have to wait until I've reached the "Viagra for Life" stage, since I've yet to even try the drug.


For me this totally explains why some guys come here with low erection quality and once they get on a good routine they get much harder erections (better arteries). As long as they stay with Penis Enlargement they will continue to grow and keep the hardness (atleast for some time). Their best hardness days are "girth workout days" and off days. However once they quit they get floppy dicks again---> so hooked for life on Penis Enlargement, because Penis Enlargement didn't really FIX their obviously organic issue (inflow outflow) - it just masked them temporaryJust remember that your entire argument is based on suppositions, hypothesis and speculation, backed by anecdotal evidence. My arguments are backed by my own experience, along with the experience of thousands of others on this board who've gone through successful Penis Enlargement, without the loss of erectile hardness.


Ok enough bad case scenarios.

If you have no topical, visible veins , and don't develope these at your routine I think you have the best chances to get really thick AND remain hard forever without viagra.

Examples that come to mind are "the ugly ramon bang bus dude" if its not some secret brazilian surgery then it must be mother nature.
His dick ALWAYS looks mighty hard it fills up from top to bottom , has huge round chambers. He has like ONLY one really visble vein on top of his dick (probably the dorsal one) however no veins at all at the sides or bottom of his dick. (some really tiny brunched ones show up when he tries to squeeze his thick stick into tiny asses- but thats about it)
Naturally I believe he is exactly 8-8,5 x 6" and the amazing thing is the girth is like that from base to top pretty evenly.
He has a very tiny had , wich only adds to the illusion of him being longer than he really is (other people guess him at 9"-9,5 wich is bullshit) In fact he DOES have more dick than others shaft wise. YOu can compare another 8x6 dick with him with less width/more depth and a bigger (longer head) and ramon will look alot larger because he has more shaft.
Pumped , I put him @ 8.5 x 6.2-6.4. And he sure as hells pumps alot and often. Good thing is he still looks hard with his pumped dick because he has so few veins that the blood in flow is always enough to create enough pressure for a hard dick.

Another example is a dude (don't know his name ) from "all internal" he got huge girth and that 2 dicks weilded together look. Looks MONSTER and very very hard, very pronounced CS and no veins at all. Go figure.Take a look at Mark Ashley, Brandon Iron, Nacho, Phil Gash, Brian Pumper and Mandingo sometime. All have big veins/arteries and all seem to be able to get spectacularly hard. Go figure.


Ok last but not least. So you all don't attack me:

I'm not saying that you should stop Penis Enlargement-girth if you happen to have alot of veins or that you shouldn't start with it in the first place.
I'm also very aware of the possible existence of they guy who has lots of big bulging veins and SO GOOD arterie inflow (due to big arteries or very very good circulation, or blood pressure or whatever) that he will keep his hardness no matter the amount of new veins he developes or destroys. I guess that rare though and You can't count on it.

Just keep that stuff in mind and keep a close look on your dick hardness.After all good Penis Enlargement sessions, I lose a lot of hardness and that's to be expected. This is because the circulatory system and erectile tissue have been under a great amount of stress. A rest is needed. After a few hours- or days- if I really overdid it, I'm back to 110% hardness again.


I myself started with one single visible vein on top and not a single visble vein anywhere else, made huge fast girth gains and developed more and more veins along the journey. No I have veins that are big and don't go away no matter how much I take off, my best hardness days are when I do girthwork , wait 1 or 2 days and do it again and when I take viagra :(. The worst days are when I do alot of girthwork then pause...its really horrible once the good off days phase is gone ..then it slowly returns to a state where I have hard erections for sex as long as most of my body is higher than my dick (doggystyle, missionary) and its really shitty medium hard or less @ woman on top positions (wich is the main reason why my girl is never on top)
No spontanious erections, rare morning wood (mostly only when I took viagra the day before), dick needs constant stimulation to remain really hard , I have huge strength in my pc muscles because I'm like aways on the edge of cumming and holding off at the same time ( to remain very hard) I can brake off every orgasm and ejacualtion.
But that shit just upsets me.
I actually don't want to use my pc muscles at all duuring sex. And I want to do woman on top , and hell I want my throb back. Wish me luck yall in 4 days I'll get a needle in my dick with prostaglandine and a full duplex scan :( hopefully they can come up with a good solution !!!! I pray they do.Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but why jump to the conclusion that bigger veins are the cause of your problems? Have you been to a urologist? If so, what did they have to say about it? Something else may very well be responsible for your difficulties.

Look, your argument is similar to the "argument" that weight training is very dangerous because, at times, the tissue surrounding the muscles being trained- ligaments, tendons, connective tissue, etc.- won't match the muscle growth. The result is torn ligaments, tendons, or whatever. Therefore, weight training BAD!!! And you know what, this is even partially true. The odd person will have uneven growth in their muscles, compared to the supporting tissue and the result is an extremely painful injury. But does this deter anyone from weight training? Obviously not! Penis Enlargement is no different.

Please see my article on veins and bloodflow (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17107) for more information on how all this stuff comes together.

Baraka
07-02-05, 05:01 PM
Ridiculous fearmongering! I'm sorry, but it's shit like this which ends up getting the government to ban things unnecessarily. Everything I've seen from Penis Enlargement detractors so far has been based on groundless speculation. Everyone, please make your decisions on facts and trial, rather than on fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I've been reading a lot of Tbirdy's stuff, and I'm kicking some ideas and theories around in my head.

First of all, in some of the sights I've read, including this one, references to other parts of the body that can be manually enlarged through consistent stretching are sometimes made. DLD references ear lobes, another site references women from south-east asia (I think) who stack rings on their neck and lengthen their necks to outrageous proportions. I take immediate logical issue with both of these.

The earlobe example is a poor analogy because of the nature of earlobed tissue compared to the tissue in the penis. I only know some of the details of both, but the function and complexity of the earlobe is nowhere near the function and complexity of the penis. The earlobes are soft tissue that don't naturally dilate via a complex process. The penis, of course, has a wide variety of tissues and structures. Also, more simply speaking, just because one part of the body can be enlarged (but who wants to have massive, hanging earlobes?) doesn't mean all parts can be.

The myanmar women who lengthen their neck with rings is a horrible analogy because the rings cause extensive muscular and skeletal deformities. I'll post directly from a website:

A Padaung woman from Loikaw, eastern Myanmar (formerly Burma). The Padaung people number only about 7,000 but have become widely known for their custom of neck-stretching. The neck rings confer status and respect on the wearer’s family, and must be worn for life. Their removal as a punisHydromaxent for adultery is particularly cruel, as the skeletal and muscular deformities that have resulted from years of wearing them mean that the woman has to spend the rest of her life lying down, or try to find some other support for her neck.

I doubt many people are interested in lengthening their penis to the point of causing massive deformities, so this analogy is also poor.

I'm thinking now that the same alterations to tissues that can increase penis size are the same that can cause erectile dysfunction or deformities. None of us really know how the tissues in our penises respond to jelquing or stretching. Instead of rebuilding after being damaged, perhaps the tissues are replaced with scar tissue that doesn't function like undamaged tissue does. I think penis enlargement is extremely risky and perhaps outright destructive.

orbital
07-03-05, 03:13 PM
You're right, I am afraid. My dick doesn't work very well anymore, maybe 60-70% of its original capacity to get hard. Mine and Tbirdy's posts are our perspectives. They are part of the total Penis Enlargement experience, and so researchers deserve to know. I understand that people who are happy with their Penis Enlargement program would disagree with some of my and Tbird's assesments, and thats fine. Fearmongering? Thats a little hyperbolic, isn't it?

Bib
07-03-05, 03:45 PM
Baraka,

Good post.

Bigger

tbirdy
07-03-05, 06:52 PM
"tbirdy, I think you're getting mixed up between the definitions of "veins" and "arteries". Veins carry blood away from appendages and to the heart. Arteries carry blood to appendages and from the heart. Both are equally important in creating and sustaining healthy erections."

-You are thinking wrong, I was well aware of the difference between veins and arteries when I wrote that.

"Okay, but what if the penile arteries are larger than the corresponding veins? "

-Well, what if not ??? Can you look inside your dick ? You have 4 main arteries..thats about it. The veins greatly outnumber the arteries..the sizes of the arteries increases and allows for more blood-in-flow when the smooth muscle cells circularily surrounding the arteries begin to relax.

-Well, I've also seen a lot of porn and I completely disagree. There are tons of guys out there with veiny cocks who can get diamond-cutting hard. I've seen more black cocks than white cocks with all those veins, but they all seem to be able to get very hard. Plus, all of our observations are probably being severely distorted by all that Viagra everyone takes.

-I never said that a very veiny dick can't be a very hard dick. It can, as long as the corpus cavernosum and spongiousum expand to their max and thus shut down all the veins more or less completely. If this is not the case, due to bad compliance within the chambers. Bad collagen ratio through fibrosis or a venous leak ..even if its very very little fibrosis..with alot of veins you are pretty much fucked for life...

"So what? A healthy erection benefits from larger veins because they can more efficiently cycle out "old" blood- the blood that's been depleted of oxygen and nutrients. The arteries will then bring in new blood. Circulation is the name of the game, after all."

-Erection hardness is not about nutrients my friend. If you have more blood flowing out than in you will have slow, weak, soft erections. its that simple. Circulation is not the name of the game. In fact at full erection there is almost no blood going out of the cavernous bodys. Thats why you get throbbing erections and can remain hard, after you got hard, even without any kind of stimulation...its common sense really , that you definetly need some circulation going on , or else your dick would turn blue and cold...the ratio is important though.

"I'm sorry, but you're way off on this one. Then again, it's not your fault, since almost all medical diagrams of the penis circulatory system make the veins much larger than the arteries. But I assume that you're talking about the two dorsal arteries when you say "The arteries are deep within the chambers and only 2 are on top, tiny ones though". Well, my two dorsal arteries are the largest vessels in my cock. Both are more than a quarter-inch thick. My erections have gotten harder and harder as my circulatory system has been built up through years of inconsistent Penis Enlargement. The hardness and engorgement right now beats anything I could manage during the peak of my teens. Kinda turns your entire argument upside down and inside out, eh?"

-I'm sorry too. But I'm not way off. I have yet to see pictures of your dick and the oh so prominent arteries you speak about. Infact Show me any picture from the internet where you can clearly see the dorsal arteries. I can't see mine. And I didn't see any on other guys dicks before...I sure as hell enlarged my veins to stupid sizes..at the same time I don't think I enlarged my arteries at all....

"If this is true, then how come my two dorsal arteries have never decreased in size over the years, despite my sometimes avoiding Penis Enlargement completely for months at a time? And I guess I have to wait until I've reached the "Viagra for Life" stage, since I've yet to even try the drug."

Yes Great. Fucking great. I want to puke. Its always superb and uplifting to see someone hijack a thread, where people suffering from ED try to help each other, just to fucking brag about how lucky he is to have SUCH a good erection and how he is NOT dependent on viagra (like I and many others here). I hope you enjoyed yourself when you wrote this half-witted shit, you lucky lucky individual with the never-decreasing arteries....yuk !

"Just remember that your entire argument is based on suppositions, hypothesis and speculation, backed by anecdotal evidence. My arguments are backed by my own experience, along with the experience of thousands of others on this board who've gone through successful Penis Enlargement, without the loss of erectile hardness."

-I remember that you don't have any case of ED, never had one, you don't have any experience in that field. In fact, my arguements are REALLY backed by my own experience, because I used to have erection like you have now, 2 years ago. Besides that I have scientific articles, specialists from universitys and also members from this board who DON'T fool themselves, and also those who suffer from Penis Enlargement related injuries or ED. In other words..feel free to shut the fuck up , unless you can contribute something that is a solution to my problem or the problem of other guys here.


"Take a look at Mark Ashley, Brandon Iron, Nacho, Phil Gash, Brian Pumper and Mandingo sometime. All have big veins/arteries and all seem to be able to get spectacularly hard. Go figure."

-Yup go figure. I figured it out. Thx to another guy from this board. The secret of all these ramons,mandingos, nachos, and so on is exactly this :
Alo-Derm Phalloplasty (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18813) +

"Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but why jump to the conclusion that bigger veins are the cause of your problems? Have you been to a urologist? If so, what did they have to say about it? Something else may very well be responsible for your difficulties."

-At the time when I wrote this, I visited several urologists wich, like you , did not have the slightest idea what they were talking about (just take these blue pills and u will be alrigh , or as long as it doesn't fall of its ok)
wich led me to even more research and finally I went to specialists at universitys , who confirmed what I researched myself and admitted that most urologists have no real clue when it comes to ED. They mostly deal with bladder infections and prescribe viagra.thats it.

"Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but why jump to the conclusion that bigger veins are the cause of your problems? Have you been to a urologist? If so, what did they have to say about it? Something else may very well be responsible for your difficulties."
"Look, your argument is similar to the "argument" that weight training is very dangerous because, at times, the tissue surrounding the muscles being trained- ligaments, tendons, connective tissue, etc.- won't match the muscle growth. The result is torn ligaments, tendons, or whatever. Therefore, weight training BAD!!! And you know what, this is even partially true. The odd person will have uneven growth in their muscles, compared to the supporting tissue and the result is an extremely painful injury. But does this deter anyone from weight training? Obviously not! Penis Enlargement is no different."

"but why jump to the conclusion that bigger veins are the cause of your problems?"

-Why ? BECAUSE THEY ARE ! And besides that At that time I decided to systematically search for the reason behind the ED. The veins were a symptom AND just maybe the only cause. In fact, it could be the veins it could be also the tissue of the cavernous bodys surrounding these veins, that malfunctions and doesn't squeeze of these veins upon erection. Understand ? It could have also been the arteries, the nerves, the hormones, food, diabetis , multiple sklerosis, cancer, psychological problems...I systematically visited specialists to adress and exclude each of those possible causes for the ED. What did you do to build your opinion ? Read the hype of the dumb masses on alot of these boards that lie to themselves and lie to you ? Did you investigate their dicks ? NO ? Well I talked to people who DID investigate thousands of dicks with full duplex sonographie, cavernosographie , and angiology.

"Please see my article on veins and bloodflow for more information on how all this stuff comes together."

I read it and I'm sorry to inform you and others that its complete NONSENSE. Its just self glorifying NONSENSE.

Especially your conclusion :

"Put another way, someone with an average-sized penis wanting to grow it to the aforementioned "big" proportions of 7.5" long by 6" around, would have to nearly double their bloodflow. Personally, I have increased my own volume by nearly 60% and have less than 50% to go in order to reach my goal of 30 cubic inches. I understand that bigger veins come with a bigger dick and hopefully readers of this article will come away with the same conclusions. Good luck with your enlargement."

What you really did is : You increased the size of the spongy cells and their capaity to expand and hold blood. You have the same bloodinflow (at the most there is a minimal increase)
The only thing that increases bloodflow to the genitals is upper leg work , like jogging , especially skipping, squats and so on...And only if you follow a special workout routine when doing the mentioned excersizes. That and viagra ! Thats it ! Its like that because the arterie that supplies the penis branches of the BIG arteries that supplie the legs.

Get in your head , that an increase in volume always equals an increase of the cells within the chamber and their capcity to hold blood. It remains the same blood flow AND to show of the NEW GAINS you gotta be lucky and KEEP a healthy and functioning and expanding spongy tissue..because only when it squeezes of the veins you will have a hard erection, no matter the volume of your penis.
Arteries don't play such a big role as you may believe. I was told by specialists who talked about other patients and different case scenarios , that even if you had only one single arterie, it would be enough to fill the penis and remain erect as long as everything else functions normal.
You should investigate revacularisation surgery and the rare success of such a procedere...they take arteries and hook them to veins, thus turn the vein into a sort of an arterie. Doesn't have any success if you have venous leaks or a injured spongy tissue, degenrated muscle cells. Understand ?

I understand you are a Penis Enlargement believer and you probably DO have the crazy hard penis you talk about , but u have absolutely no idea what you were alking about when you wrote your last post. Please contribute somewhere else and only add your 0.2 cents here if you have a solution or useful piece of information.

tbirdy
07-03-05, 07:13 PM
Man. oh man. Dude as a former lurker I know you from day one ! ok. Bib. Look !

You have my respect in the field of creating hanging equipment and doing buisness with it by selling it to all the masses. its good profit eh ?
But you have absolutely no credibility when you talk about
-quote:
"
I have been on three different Penis Enlargement boards for over seven years. I have read the Penis Enlargement experiences of thousands of guys. The vast majority are successful, with better erection quality after Penis Enlargement. There are very few cases of poor erection quality after Penis Enlargement."

Truth is, you have financial interests and sure as hell you will always support Penis Enlargement to protect your interests. You also admitted that a small tiny itty bitty fraction of the Penis Enlargement world ends up injured. Because ? AAAh because they used loop devices and didn#t buy your hangers. Talk about advertizing. TRUTH is , there are hundrets and thousands of guys like me. Guys who had bad luck and NOT due to bad equipment or too much stress or wrong techniques. NO. I'm sure everyone followed common sense and did the Penis Enlargement the same way the others did. As you DO know Penis Enlargement is always risky gambling and u don't know if your dick is made for it or not. You know it was not made for pe when its too late. And you know it was made for it ONLY when you stop Penis Enlargement, keep your gains and DON'T develope ED a year or 2 later.

With How many documented cases of people, who did pe gained something worth mentioning (=above 0.,5") and kept a healthy erection years after Penis Enlargement can you come up with... post the links here.
I wonder if you can come up with the thousands you mentioned in your post. I highly doubt that.

Ok I think we can stop here.

I understand that your hanger will not cure my dick.

I understand that whenever you read how someone says something against Penis Enlargement you feel attacked and protect your financial interests.

Please understand that this is the "injury" section of the forum and how to recover from impotence. I think I know alot more in this field than you do. Just like I would never argue with you about bib hangers.
So don't see this as an attack ! I also wrote good things about Penis Enlargement. All I'm doing is cutting through the lies and the fog and researching for myself and others WHAT REALLY is going on inside the penis. Its still a long hard way to go...
truth is Penis Enlargement is potentialy ALOT more dangerous than naive people are made to belive it is. You can be following the beginner routine of the biggest pe guru and do everything 1000% correct and still end up with injury and ED.

orbital
07-03-05, 07:15 PM
"Just remember that your entire argument is based on suppositions, hypothesis and speculation, backed by anecdotal evidence. My arguments are backed by my own experience, along with the experience of thousands of others on this board who've gone through successful Penis Enlargement, without the loss of erectile hardness."

I think this statement is shoddy. Your arguments are also anecdotal, as written by you. "...backed by my own experience." Your own experience is necessarily anecdotal. Thats the definition of the word.

Anyways, I'm glad you have benefited and have no problems. Some people do, and everyone acknowledges that there is some danger to Penis Enlargement.

Baraka, how long have you been Penis Enlargementing, and what does your routine look like? I'm still trying to figure out what I did wrong.

thefranchise
07-04-05, 12:58 PM
Man Im bout to stop Penis Enlargementing. I had been thinking about it for some time. If it is worth my erections. I havnt been gaining for shit lately, and I am just wondering if its really worth me walking around half the time with limp dick. When I do get rock hard, my CS and head don't fill up so my dick looks flat and shorter than it could be. I havnt had actuall morning wood in forever, and usually when i get random erections, its just like 50-75% full. I really hope i didnt perma fuck my penis.

Bib
07-04-05, 04:08 PM
tbirdy,

>You have my respect in the field of creating hanging equipment and doing buisness with it by selling it to all the masses. its good profit eh ?<

Actually, it is no profit at all. It costs me money. What little is made above costs is given to my sons who are making the hangers.

>But you have absolutely no credibility when you talk about
-quote:
"
I have been on three different Penis Enlargement boards for over seven years. I have read the Penis Enlargement experiences of thousands of guys. The vast majority are successful, with better erection quality after Penis Enlargement. There are very few cases of poor erection quality after Penis Enlargement."

Truth is, you have financial interests and sure as hell you will always support Penis Enlargement to protect your interests.<

If you actually had been around for a while, you would know I have stopped making hangers on several occasions because of lack of time, and only started again when guys begged me to make them. You would also know I have never advertised, and consistantly recommend, that guys make their own hangers. You would also know I have provided instructions for guys to make their own hangers. You would also know that it is very difficult for most guys to buy a hanger, since I don't provide any credit card system through which to order.

Given the above, you really think I am out for profit? I have a successful real estate business, that takes most of my time. I could use time spent on hangers, and answering questions, much better, and more profitably, in my normal career. Considering development costs, I will never even break even on hangers, unless I sold the patent, or marketing rights. But I will not do that, at least in the near future, because it is knowledge which makes Penis Enlargement successful for an individual, not any device.

>You also admitted that a small tiny itty bitty fraction of the Penis Enlargement world ends up injured. Because ? AAAh because they used loop devices and didn#t buy your hangers. Talk about advertizing.<

Actually, I only know of one guy, that was hanging correctly, that injured himself. If you look closely, you will see that many more guys are injured by manual means, than from hanging.

>TRUTH is , there are hundrets and thousands of guys like me.<

And where is your proof of that statement?

>Guys who had bad luck and NOT due to bad equipment or too much stress or wrong techniques. NO. I'm sure everyone followed common sense and did the Penis Enlargement the same way the others did. As you DO know Penis Enlargement is always risky gambling and u don't know if your dick is made for it or not. You know it was not made for pe when its too late. And you know it was made for it ONLY when you stop Penis Enlargement, keep your gains and DON'T develope ED a year or 2 later.<

Penis Enlargement definitely has risks, and I try to point them out often. But, if common sense is used, and the stresses are increased slowly, giving soft tissues the time to adapt, the risks are low.

All we have to go by is anecdotal evidence from the forums. That evidence is clear. Penis Enlargement can be successful to varying degrees, for the majority of guys, safely.

>With How many documented cases of people, who did pe gained something worth mentioning (=above 0.,5") and kept a healthy erection years after Penis Enlargement can you come up with... post the links here.<

What did you have in mind? The evidence may be found in the results forums of MOS or Thunders. I believe Thunders has a data section with a ton of results. Someone interested in Penis Enlargement should spend a good deal of time reading of those results. Then, as far as erection quality goes, all you would have to do is look at the injuries sections of the above mentioned forums. All the information is there.

>I wonder if you can come up with the thousands you mentioned in your post. I highly doubt that.<

Well, I am not going to count them up. Plus, I cannot document the thousands of guys that have emailed me, with their experience, who do not post on the forums. Plus, many years of results were deleted on the old Penis Enlargementforums. But there is still substantial information on MOS and Thunders. Enough to get a good idea of what the situation is.

>I understand that whenever you read how someone says something against Penis Enlargement you feel attacked and protect your financial interests.<

Nope. I just hate to see someone castigating something that has meant so much to the lives of thousands of guys, including me. You are one case, not the norm.

>Please understand that this is the "injury" section of the forum and how to recover from impotence. I think I know alot more in this field than you do. Just like I would never argue with you about bib hangers.<

Well, I have documented on many occasions my problems with ED, due directly to hanging. If you had read as much as you claim, you would know that. I looked at my problems from a scientific view, and worked through them using logic. I not only fully recovered each time, but was able to continue Penis Enlargementing, reach my goals, and today have better erections that when I was in my 30's.

>truth is Penis Enlargement is potentialy ALOT more dangerous than naive people are made to belive it is. You can be following the beginner routine of the biggest pe guru and do everything 1000% correct and still end up with injury and ED.<

That is correct. Penis Enlargement is like many things, it is a risk vs reward relationship. As with Penis Enlargement surgery, or any doctor approved methods, there are risks. Such is life.

Bigger

tbirdy
07-04-05, 05:13 PM
Quote : "Well, I have documented on many occasions my problems with ED, due directly to hanging. If you had read as much as you claim, you would know that."

Bib , I read up tons of articles and post on injuries and ED, not on everything you ever said or did.

besides :

"
If you actually had been around for a while, you would know I have stopped making hangers on several occasions because of lack of time, and only started again when guys begged me to make them. You would also know I have never advertised, and consistantly recommend, that guys make their own hangers. You would also know I have provided instructions for guys to make their own hangers. You would also know that it is very difficult for most guys to buy a hanger, since I don't provide any credit card system through which to order."

I'm sorry, I DO know about that.However, I didn't think about that when I replied to you. Seriously I was still hurt and pissed off because of the guy who posted before you !
Man, at some time , I also made my own custom bib hanger. Good stuff.
You DO have my respect. And what you said above IS TRUE. Guess I overreacted.

Ok lets stop attacking each other and lets get back to the topic:

THIS IS VERY INTERESTING:

Quote: "I looked at my problems from a scientific view, and worked through them using logic. I not only fully recovered each time, but was able to continue Penis Enlargementing, reach my goals, and today have better erections that when I was in my "30's.

What did you do to recover from ED.How severe was you ED. Do you have any special advice for my case ?
I'm planning on getting this shit done by specialists. I already had the vein ligation surgery wich was a great success at first but then 2 weeks later , after the veins rechanneld I was back to nothing ! The specialists have cured 60 patients with a modified tecnique (read below).
---------------------------------------------------------------
ethanol injection therapy

The role of venous occlusion, along with increased
arterial inflow and corporeal smooth
muscle relaxation, is appreciated as essential in
penile erection. The failure of adequate venous occlusion
is considered to be one of the most common
causes of vasculogenic erectile dysfunction.
Surgical treatments, such as deep dorsal vein ligation,
spongiolysis, and crural ligation, have been
performed to increase the resistance of the extracorporeal
venous outflow. Such surgical procedures
have often been combined to prevent the
development of collateral veins of the corpora cavernosum;
however, the surgical invasiveness is increased
by the combined procedures.
Interventional radiology treatment for venogenic
erectile dysfunction has been previously
reported. Interventional radiology seems to
have the advantage of being less invasive than the
surgical procedures, and multiple venous channel
occlusions are achieved at once. However, embolization
of the penile vein, using coils and/or detachable
balloons, requires someone experienced in the
catheterization technique. On the other hand, with
the technique used in the present study, the insertion
of about only 2 cm in length of a flexible needle into the deep dorsal vein is needed, and occlusions
of multiple venous channels, such as the
prostatic plexus, internal pudendal veins, and inferior
vesical veins, were produced easily without
any selective embolization technique.
Ethanol is a tissue-adhesive agent used for embolization
of varicocele, renal carcinoma, hepatocellular
carcinoma, and others. To our knowledge,
no study has reported the use of ethanol
alone for the treatment of venogenic erectile dysfunction.
A highly dense ethanol injection to the
vein can create permanent venous occlusion. On
the other hand, it has been reported in pathologic
examinations that diluted ethanol does not affect
the injected vein at all. The coils, detachable balloons,
and N-butyl cyanoacrylate inserted for the
embolization of a vein have the risk of migrating to
proximal veins, but the current technique using
ethanol is free from that risk.
Suitable cases for pelvic venoablation by ethanol
injection are mostly cases of veno-occlusive erectile
dysfunction. Our experience also shows that
patients with high maintenance flow rates have
poor results because of an insufficient increase in
the resistance of the extracorporeal venous out-
flow. We could not pinpoint the differences in the
places of vein leakage between the successful and
unsuccessful cases.
The success rate of surgical treatments for venoocclusive
dysfunction gradually decreases in the
long-term follow-up. It is thought that the major
cause of failure is the opening-up of collateral, thin
veins from the corpora cavernosum. As our ethanol
technique can make multiple occlusions of the
deep dorsal vein network, including tiny veins at
once, the recovered potency may last longer than
that from other surgical treatments.
This procedure is cost-effective in comparison to
other interventional radiology procedures, because
ethanol is less expensive than other embolization
materials, such as coils, detachable balloons,
hot contrast material, sodium tetradecyl
sulfate, and N-butyl cyanoacrylate. Furthermore,
this procedure does not need a guide wire or angiographic
catheter at all.
Sildenafil has been widely used for the treatment
of erectile dysfunction since 1998, and recently, it
became the first choice for the treatment of erectile
dysfunction. Naturally, venogenic erectile dysfunction
is also often treated with sildenafil. It is
known that sildenafil induces hypotension in patients
using drugs that contain organic nitrates or
release nitric oxide. Therefore, sildenafil cannot be
used by such patients. We recommend our procedure
using ethanol for patients with veno-occlusive
dysfunction who are either unresponsive to
sildenafil or in whom sildenafil is contraindicated.
CONCLUSIONS
Our pelvic venoablation technique using ethanol
for the treatment of erectile dysfunction due to
veno-occlusive dysfunction was effective, minimally
invasive, and cost-effective. This procedure is also
characterized by the advantage that multiple occlusions
of the deep dorsal vein network, including tiny
veins, are achieved at once. We expect the long-term
success rate of this procedure will be higher than
other venous occlusion therapies because of the suppression
of collateral thin veins. However, additional
large and long-term follow-up studies are needed to
define the role of this pelvic venoablation technique
for veno-occlusive dysfunction.
REFERENCES
1. Lue TF: Physiology of penile erection and pathophysiology
of erectile dysfunction and priapism, in Walsh PC, Retik
AB, Vaughan ED Jr, et al (Eds): Campbell’s Urology, 7th ed.
Philadelphia, WB Saunders, 1998, vol 2, pp 1157–1179.
2. Lewis RW: Venous surgery for impotence. Urol Clin
North Am 15: 115–121, 1988.
3. Freedman AL, Neto FC, Mehringer CM, et al: Longterm
results of penile vein ligation for impotence from venous
leakage. J Urol 149: 1301–1303, 1993.
4. Courtheoux P, Maiza D, Henriet JP, et al: Erectile dysfunction
caused by venous leakage: treatment with detachable
balloons and coils. Radiology 161: 807–809, 1986.
5. Bookstein JJ, and Lurie AL: Transluminal penile venoablation
for impotence: a progress report. Cardiovasc Intervent
Radiol 11: 253–260, 1988.
6. Schwartz AN, Lowe M, Harley JD, et al: Preliminary
report. Penile vein occlusion therapy: selection criteria and
methods used for the transcatheter treatment of impotence
caused by venous-sinusoidal incompetence. J Urol 148: 815–
820, 1992.
7. Schild HH, Muller SC, Mildenberger P, et al: Percutaneous
penile venoablation for treatment of impotence. Cardiovasc
Intervent Radiol 16: 280–286, 1993.
8. Fowlis GA, Sidhu PS, Sager HR, et al: Preliminary
report—combined surgical and radiological penile vein occlusion
for the management of impotence caused by venoussinusoidal
incompetence. Br J Urol 74: 492–496, 1994.
9. Pes¸kirciog˘ lu L, Tekin I, Boyvat F, et al: Embolization of
the deep dorsal vein for the treatment of erectile impotence
due to veno-occlusive dysfunction. J Urol 163: 472–475, 2000.
10. Morales A, Marshall PG, Surridge DH, et al: A new
device for diagnostic screening of nocturnal penile tumescence.
J Urol 129: 288–290, 1983.
11. Craven WM, Redmond PL, Kumpe DA, et al: Planned
delayed nephrectomy after ethanol embolization of renal carcinoma.
J Urol 146: 704–708, 1991.
12. Sayfan J, Soffer Y, and Orda R: Varicocele treatment:
prospective randomized trial of 3 methods. J Urol 148: 1447–
1449, 1992.
13. Yamakado K, Takeda K, Nishide Y, et al: Portal vein
embolization with steel coils and absolute ethanol: a comparative
experimental study with canine liver. Hepatology 22:
1812–1818, 1995.
14. Kinnison ML, Kadir S, Strandberg JD, et al: Percutaneous
spermatic vein occlusion: evaluation of sclerosing agents
in experimental animals. Radiology 161: 299–301, 1986.
15. Moriel EZ, Mehringer CM, Schwartz M, et al: Pulmonary
migration of coils inserted for treatment of erectile dysfunction
caused by venous leakage. J Urol 149: 1316–1318,

REDZULU2003
07-04-05, 05:22 PM
Man Im bout to stop Penis Enlargementing. I had been thinking about it for some time. If it is worth my erections. I havnt been gaining for shit lately, and I am just wondering if its really worth me walking around half the time with limp dick. When I do get rock hard, my CS and head don't fill up so my dick looks flat and shorter than it could be. I havnt had actuall morning wood in forever, and usually when i get random erections, its just like 50-75% full. I really hope i didnt perma fuck my penis.

Do not let threads like this get you down.
If we did than I'm sure alot of us would pack it in cos someone has had bad misfortunes in their pe career.

REDZULU2003
07-04-05, 05:25 PM
Also Tbirdy, This isnt attacking you so dont think I'm doing so but could you please make it easier for us to read your posts because they are so jumbled together its very hard for me to read them.
Take spaces after paragraphs, use the quote function...anything just please make it easier to read your posts because you have alot of experience to tell and its a shame that I myself and others cant read it all, or read bits than see its hard to read and skip it.
Again this isnt a attack, but constructive critisism if you will in order for others to understand you better on these forums.

Thank you

orbital
07-04-05, 06:05 PM
I agree with Zulu. Tbirdy, your grammar and poor content structuring make it difficult to fully understand you. You seem to have a tremendous amount of information to share!

I understand that your German. That could be part our difficulty in understanding your english.

orbital
07-04-05, 06:07 PM
This thread is only loosely related to the master thread, but I'm a biology student and my understanding of human physiology is expanding all the time. I'm thinking about trying to get a formalized study on Penis Enlargement and erectile dysfunction, perhaps even as a senior project. Would anyone be willing to contribute to this idea? I appreciate any feedback anyone might have.

Bib
07-04-05, 07:02 PM
tbirdy,

>What did you do to recover from ED.How severe was you ED. Do you have any special advice for my case ?<

My ED was all nerve related. When I started Penis Enlargement, and hanging, there was very little information. The devices in use at that time were the loop, the swim cap, and the commercial Grip system (vacumn). That was it.

I started with the loop, and within the first two weeks had my first case of ED. So, I stopped, did the research, found that I was putting pressure on the nerve bundle behind the head, made a better hanger, and continued after recovery. This became a cycle.

Thankfully, each time I either overdid it, or used a hanger that was not right, the trauma to my unit was not enough to cause permanent damage. I am sure it was due to swelling of the myelin sheath surrounding the nerves. When the swelling subsided, the feeling came back. But it was scary as hell. One bout lasted for about two weeks. Eventually, I was able to come up with a system that did not cause any nerve trauma, and in fact kept the pressure away from sensitive areas.

>I'm planning on getting this shit done by specialists. I already had the vein ligation surgery wich was a great success at first but then 2 weeks later , after the veins rechanneld I was back to nothing ! The specialists have cured 60 patients with a modified tecnique (read below).<

I am sure the doctors know what they are doing. But you know, the plumbing of the penis is not that complicated. I am sure you know how it works, and that the problem could be either a lack of incoming blood, or the inability, or ineffectiveness of cutting off the return blood flow.

Before you have any more procedures done, let's look at things, and try to solve the problem without knives.

I attribute the increase in quality of my erections to one thing only: External angioplasty. Light jelqing of the outer shaft, and behind the balls jelqing of the inner shaft. I actually chronicled the increases in girth of my inner shaft, as my erections became stronger. This was from BTB jelqing alone.

Now, since your problem is blood flow related, I assume that the doctors did some tests using NO to see if it was also chemical related? IOW, are the supply vessels actually dialating?

If they are dialating, is there any other restriction on blood flow?

Even a small amount of restriction, or decrease in dialation, can cause weak erections. It may appear that the return flow is simply too great, but actually it is a lack of expansion that hinders full erection. The return flow simply cannot be cut off enough.

At any rate, I will help you however I can. The best thing to remember is to relax and figure out exactly what is happening.

Bigger

tbirdy
07-05-05, 02:20 PM
<<<Tbirdy, your grammar and poor content structuring make it difficult to fully understand you. You seem to have a tremendous amount of information to share!>>>

I know :( It's 100% correct and sums it up :(

I have crazy amounts of information floating around in my head at the same time. The energy to sit down and write a very big unstructured post actually comes from huge, endless deep d e s p e r a t i o n. I cry. I'm crying. Have patience with me, all your input is very valued and welcome. I'll try to structure the text better in the future.


@ BiB

I'm glad you didn't take anything that I said personally. That shows that you are really a great guy.

ED:

1. Your past ED. Nerve related. I think you fought it off , even before it developed so you never really had real ED.
It went away by itself. ED does not cure by itself, it gets worse with time.

2.
My ED. The biggest difference between yours and mine is: Mine developed subsequently after 2 injuries/traumas to the erect penis. I NEVER ever (up to this day) had the chance to understand or pinpoint WHAT exactly got damaged. See ? This is the reason for my chaos in the head ? I don't know the enemy, I'm trapped in the dark. You logically concluded "its the nerves behind the head" and stopped chronically injuring them. I don't know what is injured.

In my case , I only have my memmory as aid or as something to compare to , as in : How the penis used to be, and how it is now. Besides that , I only have the symptoms = insufficient erection+ bigger, more veins. How I'm thinking is :

Is it the arteries ?
Is it the veins ?
Nerves ?
Venous leak ?
cavernous leak ?
degenrated muscle cells in the cavernous bodys ?
Fibrosis in the cavernous body ?
Or what comes closest to my situation : A bit of all of the above mentioned.

So what therapy should I go with ?

There is revascularisation surgery.= Connecting arteries to veins. = more inflow = more pressure = should be a hard dick after the op. But what if its the nerves ? The nerves control the dialation of the arteries, if the signal doesn't arrive at the arterie = no success of the revascularisation surgery.
Also, what if its the veins ? Or venous leak ? remember erection hardness happens because almost ALL bloodoutflow is trapped. So if its the veins/nerves/leakage = no success of the revascularisation surgery.

On the other hand :

What if it is the arteries ? Arterisklerosis ?! And everything else works fine. The veins are all ok and the spongy tissues and the nerves too ? Then revascularization surgery or hooking the main artery that leads to the penis to a even bigger arterie is THE option, and the way to go.

Nerves ? Nerve surgery ? Haven't found ANYTHING on nerve surgery yet. In bibs case the nerves were "dulled" and returned to normal. I know nerves can regenrates long as the axons in the spine are present. But what if a nerve is cut. (like probably in my case) After this vein ligation surgery, My whole upperside of the dick is still completely numb (its been 2 month). I was told it takes 3 month and then it will return to normal. I don#t believe in that. Correct me if I'm wrong, if a nerve gets cut , then the distant half will die off and be absorbed by the body, UNLESS you very quickly after the cut, connect the ends. Then, after 12-16 month the nerve will regenerate and you might get a weak feeling back. Thats what I remember about nerves.

Penis Vein ligation :

Well since one of my symptoms was alot bigger veins , wich developed after the injury, and I read in many scientific articles, even ONE damaged vein could be the cause for complete erektile dysfunction , I figured this is the way to go.
Prior,
I had full duplex sonography , wich went terribly wrong , and eventhough I had a prostaglandin injection , my dick didn't turn hard by itself. (sign of venous leak) I had to manually stimulate myself to a complete erection , that instantly faded away once I stopped the severe stimulation . I also squeezed my pc muscle like crazy...so by no means it was natural spontanious or drug induced erection. the doctor measured inbetween my jerk sessions, and said:
"The 4 arteries could be identified and they worked, however there seems to be not "quite" enough blood-inflow. However this could be due to : Either the horrific scenario : me jerking off , then calling the doc back in, then measuring , then erection gone , then repeat...not natural and not stimulating or maybe because of a ill connection , where the arterie goes directly into a vein directly bloodoutflow from that arterie.(highly unlikely though)

To really investigate what is going on within the penis, you need to perform radiology and cavernosographie.
You get to fat needles in each of your corpus cavernosum , the needles are attached to a pump, this pump fill the chambers with 50%saline and 50% contrast agent , and the doctors x-ray the dick..because ofthe contrast agent , the EXACT position of a potential venous leak can be pinpoined (they exactly see the blood-outflow). Sounds good , eh ? Why did i not choose to do this: Potentually dangerous and invasive procedere. One side effect can be inflammation of all chambers and complete fibrosis thereafter = complete impotence. Not a good scenario, rare though.

Thats why I talked the docotor into, doing the vein ligation surgery WITHOUT the cavernosographie.

Ok, the surgery :

A first step into the right direction. A first step into the light. 1 week after the surgery, I had AMAZING results to say the least. Spontanious morning wood for the first time ever ! The CS filled up to its max my inner Penis got huge , my overall girth at the base increased to 6 inches at erection, where it never naturally was in my whole life. It was like, I finally filled out the spce that I created though Penis Enlargement. My head was HARD. For the first time in 2 years it was really really hard...

unfortunatly , as quickly as all of this came it went away again. 2 and 3d week, I noticed new veins poppin out everywhere. either bridge veins from the cut veins , or new fullsize veins. of the 10-15 veins that the doctor ligated - only 3-4 COMPLETLY turned into full length scarr strings , and really were shut down for good. The only effect that I kept after this 3 week was a still harder head and a more engorged CS, but even that is gone now.

I have the same situation as before. I can get erect ANY time, by severe stimulation of the penis underside , while clamping my legs/ass muscles and pc muscle..as soon as i let of the pc pressure or stop the stimulation, it goes down 2 nothing ! Really , really fast. No standing power at all.

Oh wait , my situation is even worse now. I have the complete upperside numb. I don't know if nerves were cut that control the arteries...I don't know :( I was told that the doctor took EXTRA care, and tried NOT to injure the precious nerves...damn ! My orgasm is ALOT weaker now..ALOT ALOT..before , even with the ED I had powerfull, satisfying orgasms , now its not really worth the struggle...

I have a tens unit. With this thing you can train your smooth muscle cells. it works by stimulating the nerves in the penis, and these nerves make the muscle cells react and contract. Before the OP , when I used this tens on my upperside, it was tingling and contracting. Now it doesn't. The only nerves that i DO feel is the most important, that goes along the downside from the frenulum to the prostate. But even in that nerve I have less feeling.

The scar and the tissue around the scar is still swollen a bit, maybe this swelling is still pushing on the upper nerves like in BIBS case and the nerves get numbed, maybe after more time the swelling will be gone completely and the nerves will react again ? I don't know. I hope so.



Next steps ? Well, there gotta be a overriding factor !
And in my case I think its the veins.
I had huge success with it. And it all failed because the veins were not closed full length. With the technique described in the upper post , they can close the deep dorsal and its channel veins for good, they can also close the topical , rechanneled veins for good. I hope to get the results back , that I used 2 have.
Is this logical. ???

Only irreversible downside is : I won#t have the option of the normal revascularisation surgery any more.

I seriously don't care bout the weak orgasms or the numb upperside , if only I can get back the results from the first op , permanent. I think I still will have the option to hook the main penis arterie to a bigger one to increase the pressure later. This is very invasive and VERY VERY dangerous, though...probably to expensive and no insurance covers it. The ethanol sklerosing thing is cheap and my insurance will cover it.

Does this sound logical to u , or am I missing something ?

@ Bib again :

Thats what in my head. You also got me thinking , that since you DID know your problem and I don't, maybe I shouldn't go for a overriding factor solution and shoot in the dark agan. Maybe I should take the risk and have a cavernosographie ? Then again , if I decide to go with the sklerosing OP , I don*'t need the exact location , everything will be taken care off.

What you definetly inspired me to do: Getting the arteries checked through angiology, and getting all the nerves checked , if they still respond, before I do any more operations.

Thx alot ,

TBiRDY

orbital
07-05-05, 09:24 PM
I keep returning to this theory that, horrifyingly, makes more and more sense to me.

I'm wondering if we damaged our smooth muscles or erectile tissue with Penis Enlargement and the damage scarred. Scar tissue doesn't work like the tissue it replaces. For example, after a heart attack, scar tissue forms in the affected cells. They don't regain their heart-beating functionality. If our smooth muscles were damaged and suffered some scarring, they wouldn't relax completely when NO is released in the brain, impairing the ability of the spongy blood vessels to dilate and make a penis rigid. Scar tissue can be somewhat flexible, though, and so this might explain how with heavy masturbation you and I are able to get a better hard on. Are there any ways other than biopsies to determine if any scar tissue is present in the smooth muscles of the penis?

As I continue this line of thought, it makes sense that scar tissue replaces the damaged tissue when I consider how my flacid penis hangs 1.5 inches or so longer than it used to before Penis Enlargement: The scar tissue is relatively inflexible, and so the smooth muscle isn't able to completely contract in the relaxed, flacid state.

What do you guys think? I've been reading that smooth muscle has a limited ability to regenerate, so maybe it isn't all gloom and doom.

orbital
07-06-05, 04:38 PM
I need to qualify something I just posted here:

The analogy of the heart I used is bad. Heart is cardiac muscle, which is distinctly different from smooth muscle. I'm just sorry for the poor reference.

I seem to have been recovering a little bit from my more profound ED. I stopped drinking coffee once or twice a day and switched to green tea. Also, I have been taking the anti-depressent celexa (15-20 mg) for 4 years now. Still gotta see that Urologist on the 13th.

Does anyone else believe their erections are weaker, less frequent, and more difficult to maintain after several years of on and off routines? Bib, to provide some information for you, I only feel like I've experienced any kind of numbness for a few days, maybe 5 at the most, when I first started Penis Enlargement'ing. I guess that doesn't make it impossible that my erectile dysfunction isn't nerve related.

I appreciate any feedback.

Bib
07-07-05, 06:29 PM
tbirdy,

>1. Your past ED. Nerve related. I think you fought it off , even before it developed so you never really had real ED.<

Well, poor erections are poor erections. The causes are many, and mine were bad. I surely did not think there was no problem at the time.

>It went away by itself. ED does not cure by itself, it gets worse with time.<

Well, some surely do. If the cause is blunt force trauma, and you allow the tissues to heal, and not provide anymore trauma, then it will probably heal.

But I understand what you mean. Often, a vascular problem can be permanent, unless some plumbing work is done.

>2.
My ED. The biggest difference between yours and mine is: Mine developed subsequently after 2 injuries/traumas to the erect penis. I NEVER ever (up to this day) had the chance to understand or pinpoint WHAT exactly got damaged. See ? This is the reason for my chaos in the head ? I don't know the enemy, I'm trapped in the dark. You logically concluded "its the nerves behind the head" and stopped chronically injuring them. I don't know what is injured.<

Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?

>Is it the arteries ?<

From your description, it surely could be. Have you tried any BTB jelqing? I know that you are shy of Penis Enlargement now, but this is something that could really help. It is not going to damage you any further, and could provide a much greater blood supply. A wild ass guess, but I get the feeling this is what you need. More blood getting into the chambers.

It may also help with any restrictions (plaque) in the feeder vessels.

>Is it the veins ?<

Only from the standpoint of the feeder vessels not providing enough blood to get the initial clamping of the return vessels (veins). If the veins are not clamping off, then no or weak erections.

>Nerves ?<

You respond to stimulation, so probably not. But you have numbness on the bottom of your shaft, which could screw with your head, limiting NO production, and dialation of feeder vessels.

>Venous leak ?<

Probably due to weak inflow as stated above.

>cavernous leak ?<

Any bulges or odd formations in your erections? If not, then no.

>degenrated muscle cells in the cavernous bodys ?<

No.

>Fibrosis in the cavernous body <

Find anything from palpation? Any unevenness in your erections? One chamber larger or smaller than the others, or than normal?

>Or what comes closest to my situation : A bit of all of the above mentioned.<

I don't think so. I think your problem is specific, but you are taking a shotgun approach, trying to get a fix. Better to sit back, analize, and come up with a game plan. Then, go about things in a progressive manner, addressing one thing at a time.

If it were me, I would try some BTB jelqing, and try to get a full, sustained erection. You are getting weak erections now. Try to get more blood flow, and see if you can get a higher quality erection.

Most guys do not realize the minute differences in what constitutes a rock hard erection, and a weak one. It does not take much to disrupt a good erection.

Think of it this way: What happens when guys get priapism, an erection that will not subside? No stimulation, no NO production, nothing, but the erection will not go down. This is simply a huge blood flow, causing complete shut off of all return blood, and therefore the erection cannot go down, even when inflow is not there. Like a very tight cock ring.

But the overall physiology is not that different from a normal erection. The converse is also true: The overall physiology is not that different when you experience weak erections. If you supply even a bit more inflow, it could solve your problem completely.

This is what I attribute to my better erections. I do BTB jelqing a few times per month, just to keep things in shape, make sure the inflow is there, and my erections are better than in my 30's. Not my 20's, but I do not expect miracles.

>There is revascularisation surgery.= Connecting arteries to veins. = more inflow = more pressure = should be a hard dick after the op. But what if its the nerves ? The nerves control the dialation of the arteries, if the signal doesn't arrive at the arterie = no success of the revascularisation surgery.<

As I said above, I do not think it is the nerves. You react to stimulation. You may have less feeling on the bottom of your shaft, but not too much overall numbness.

As far as more surgery, I would get more information first. Any more cutting would be a final option.

>Also, what if its the veins ? Or venous leak ? remember erection hardness happens because almost ALL bloodoutflow is trapped. So if its the veins/nerves/leakage = no success of the revascularisation surgery.<

You are able to get a partial, or weak erection. Your problem is the lack of inflow, not the ablilty to cut off outflow.

>What if it is the arteries ? Arterisklerosis ?! And everything else works fine. The veins are all ok and the spongy tissues and the nerves too ? Then revascularization surgery or hooking the main artery that leads to the penis to a even bigger arterie is THE option, and the way to go.<

Or manual angioplasty, BTB jelqing may work! Try it!

>Nerves ? Nerve surgery ? Haven't found ANYTHING on nerve surgery yet. In bibs case the nerves were "dulled" and returned to normal. I know nerves can regenrates long as the axons in the spine are present. But what if a nerve is cut. (like probably in my case) After this vein ligation surgery, My whole upperside of the dick is still completely numb (its been 2 month). I was told it takes 3 month and then it will return to normal. I don#t believe in that. Correct me if I'm wrong, if a nerve gets cut , then the distant half will die off and be absorbed by the body, UNLESS you very quickly after the cut, connect the ends. Then, after 12-16 month the nerve will regenerate and you might get a weak feeling back. Thats what I remember about nerves.<

It depends on how close the ends are together. Also if the myelin sheath is also cut, which in surgery it usually is. I believe nerves grow at about one cm per month.

>"The 4 arteries could be identified and they worked, however there seems to be not "quite" enough blood-inflow. However this could be due to : Either the horrific scenario : me jerking off , then calling the doc back in, then measuring , then erection gone , then repeat...not natural and not stimulating or maybe because of a ill connection , where the arterie goes directly into a vein directly bloodoutflow from that arterie.(highly unlikely though)<

Hang your hat on this. Poor blood inflow. From what I have read here, that is your problem. Now, how that relates to your injury, I do not know, especially without more information on your injury. But you need to address the inflow.

With BTB jelqing, and other manual and mental stimulation, you need to see if you can get an above normal erection. If so, you have found your problem.

>To really investigate what is going on within the penis, you need to perform radiology and cavernosographie.
You get to fat needles in each of your corpus cavernosum , the needles are attached to a pump, this pump fill the chambers with 50%saline and 50% contrast agent , and the doctors x-ray the dick..because ofthe contrast agent , the EXACT position of a potential venous leak can be pinpoined (they exactly see the blood-outflow). Sounds good , eh ? Why did i not choose to do this: Potentually dangerous and invasive procedere. One side effect can be inflammation of all chambers and complete fibrosis thereafter = complete impotence. Not a good scenario, rare though.<

Hold off on thoughts of this.

>A first step into the right direction. A first step into the light. 1 week after the surgery, I had AMAZING results to say the least. Spontanious morning wood for the first time ever ! The CS filled up to its max my inner Penis got huge , my overall girth at the base increased to 6 inches at erection, where it never naturally was in my whole life. It was like, I finally filled out the spce that I created though Penis Enlargement. My head was HARD. For the first time in 2 years it was really really hard...

unfortunatly , as quickly as all of this came it went away again. 2 and 3d week, I noticed new veins poppin out everywhere. either bridge veins from the cut veins , or new fullsize veins. of the 10-15 veins that the doctor ligated - only 3-4 COMPLETLY turned into full length scarr strings , and really were shut down for good. The only effect that I kept after this 3 week was a still harder head and a more engorged CS, but even that is gone now.<

OK, what changed in those 2-3 weeks? Or rather, what happened after the surgery to provide better erections? Any veins that you see in the shaft are irrelevant to erection quality. It only matters if the outflow is cut off, inside your body, from the dialation of the inflow vessels, and the increased blood pressure in that area. New veins in the shaft make no difference.

>I have the same situation as before. I can get erect ANY time, by severe stimulation of the penis underside , while clamping my legs/ass muscles and pc muscle..as soon as i let of the pc pressure or stop the stimulation, it goes down 2 nothing ! Really , really fast. No standing power at all.<

This is great, and shows what I mean. Several things are required in an erection. The stimulation provides dialation of the inflow vessels. Then, sufficient blood flow must be there to fill the dialated vessels. Then, the dialation and blood flow must be sufficient to increase pressure against the outflow vessels, to therefore cut off outflow.

You said, "by severe stimulation of the penis underside , while clamping my legs/ass muscles and pc muscle". What does this mean? You got 100% or greater stimulation, which provided max dialation, and then clamped your legs ass, PC, to attempt to restrict outflow. What is missing? Obviously is is blood supply. There is a restriction in blood inflow, which BTB jelqing may address in grand fashion.

>Oh wait , my situation is even worse now. I have the complete upperside numb. I don't know if nerves were cut that control the arteries...I don't know :( I was told that the doctor took EXTRA care, and tried NOT to injure the precious nerves...damn ! My orgasm is ALOT weaker now..ALOT ALOT..before , even with the ED I had powerfull, satisfying orgasms , now its not really worth the struggle...<

I think this shotgun approach makes things snowball. You need to sit back, relax, and take things one at a time. Work on blood inflow first. When/if you feel your blood supply is sufficient, then you can look at other things. But above all, relax, heal from the procedures, and then go about things objectively.

>I have a tens unit. With this thing you can train your smooth muscle cells. it works by stimulating the nerves in the penis, and these nerves make the muscle cells react and contract. Before the OP , when I used this tens on my upperside, it was tingling and contracting. Now it doesn't. The only nerves that i DO feel is the most important, that goes along the downside from the frenulum to the prostate. But even in that nerve I have less feeling.<

Put the tens unit away.

>The scar and the tissue around the scar is still swollen a bit, maybe this swelling is still pushing on the upper nerves like in BIBS case and the nerves get numbed, maybe after more time the swelling will be gone completely and the nerves will react again ? I don't know. I hope so.<

Yes. Even a little swelling of the myelin sheath will interrupt the electrical signal in the nerves. Relax and heal.

>Next steps ? Well, there gotta be a overriding factor !
And in my case I think its the veins.<

I don't think so. Without more information, I think it is blood supply, arteries, amount of available inflow blood.

>I had huge success with it. And it all failed because the veins were not closed full length. With the technique described in the upper post , they can close the deep dorsal and its channel veins for good, they can also close the topical , rechanneled veins for good. I hope to get the results back , that I used 2 have.
Is this logical. ???<

It is logical, but does not address the problem. Even a trickle of incoming blood can be sufficient to produce an erection, if all outgoing blood is cut off by drastic means, either a cock ring, or tieing off all outgoing veins. But that is not a solution. If you can increase the incoming blood you can clamp off the outgoing veins naturally, and have better erections.

>I seriously don't care bout the weak orgasms or the numb upperside , if only I can get back the results from the first op , permanent. I think I still will have the option to hook the main penis arterie to a bigger one to increase the pressure later. This is very invasive and VERY VERY dangerous, though...probably to expensive and no insurance covers it. The ethanol sklerosing thing is cheap and my insurance will cover it.

Does this sound logical to u , or am I missing something ?<

Don't even consider any more surgery until you know EXACTLY what is happening, EXACTLY what the problem is, and address it. Everything to do with the veins is a moot point, if there is not suffcient incoming blood. This does not mean only open healthy arteries, but also the amount of blood available to flow through those arteries.

>Thats what in my head. You also got me thinking , that since you DID know your problem and I don't, maybe I shouldn't go for a overriding factor solution and shoot in the dark agan. Maybe I should take the risk and have a cavernosographie ? Then again , if I decide to go with the sklerosing OP , I don*'t need the exact location , everything will be taken care off.<

No. Sit back, relax, and heal. Vit B complex is needed for regeneration of nerves. Get some and take it. That's it. Then, please take my advice and try the BTB jelqing. Very easy to do. See if you can increase the incoming blood.

After a couple months, re-evaluate and see where you are. And once again, do not do anything until you know for sure what is needed, and how it should come out.

>What you definetly inspired me to do: Getting the arteries checked through angiology, and getting all the nerves checked , if they still respond, before I do any more operations.<

But don't do that until you have healed, and are sure you have enough blood to feed the arteries of the shaft.

Bigger

Bib
07-07-05, 06:45 PM
orbital,

>I'm wondering if we damaged our smooth muscles or erectile tissue with Penis Enlargement and the damage scarred. Scar tissue doesn't work like the tissue it replaces. For example, after a heart attack, scar tissue forms in the affected cells. They don't regain their heart-beating functionality. If our smooth muscles were damaged and suffered some scarring, they wouldn't relax completely when NO is released in the brain, impairing the ability of the spongy blood vessels to dilate and make a penis rigid. Scar tissue can be somewhat flexible, though, and so this might explain how with heavy masturbation you and I are able to get a better hard on. Are there any ways other than biopsies to determine if any scar tissue is present in the smooth muscles of the penis?<

You may or may not understand the purpose and function of the smooth muscle that lines the vessels of the three chambers. It is to dialate the vessels, allowing for greater volume in the chambers, to expand to the limits of the tunica, and produce an erection.

Smooth muscle does not produce scar tissue to any great extent. Tears are easily healed, and generally will conform to the approximate condition of the original tissue. Further, it is very hard to tear that particular smooth muscle. It is well protected.

Then, if a guy gets regular, daily erections, the higher internal blood pressure against the smooth muscle will train it to heal in a normal state. At any rate, the higher internal blood pressure will not be affected by any small aberations in the smooth muscle.

Further, if you had internal chamber damage, it should result in lopsided erections, one chamber being obviously larger or fuller than another, or bulges, etc. Plus, you should be able to actually palpate and find any damaged tissue.

Much more likely to cause problems is a tear and resulting scar tissue in the tunica, which is generally the cause of peyronies.

>As I continue this line of thought, it makes sense that scar tissue replaces the damaged tissue when I consider how my flacid penis hangs 1.5 inches or so longer than it used to before Penis Enlargement: The scar tissue is relatively inflexible, and so the smooth muscle isn't able to completely contract in the relaxed, flacid state.<

Once again, that would not be the smooth muscle, but rather the tunica. Flaccid hang is dependent on the length of the tunica, and the relative amount of elastin within the collagenous tissues. A shower vs a grower. More likely, in your case, either the tunica became relatively longer, or you effectively lengthened the elastin fibers of your shaft.

>What do you guys think? I've been reading that smooth muscle has a limited ability to regenerate, so maybe it isn't all gloom and doom.<

Smooth muscle regenerates as well as any tissue in the body, about the same as striated muscle. Collagenous tissues take much longer to heal, and are more likely to form scar tissue.

Bigger

tbirdy
07-07-05, 08:07 PM
Bib. I love you ! Not in a gay way (I'm straight). But because you took extra extra time to adress my problem and chaos, despite me (kinda) insulting you couple posts above.
Man, pls stick with me on this one for a little longer.
I have something new to add and something to clear up , because I feel you got it wrong. I definetly need your consultation, 2 brains are better than one. Maybe together we will find the missing clue !
-------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
"Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?"

Yes, I can give the exact locations. First injury. 2 years ago. Affected area, left chamber , 1 inch away from base. Resulted in shortening and size loss in that chamber and deviation. Did alot of Penis Enlargement and got all of the girth back and straightend everything out. (Remember my "cure uneven chambers thread?") No big signs of ED. Then second injury. Bottomside, 2 inches away from base. Mostly affected the CS-chamber, wich never filled up as good after the injury including the head.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Ok now the most important thing that we need to get a "common" / same understanding off :

Venous leak. And what EXACTLY it means.

I understand that your hinting at weak blood-inflow and that more inflow should cure my condition. You are right ofcourse. However, its totally unrealistic, no btb jelquing will ever build up enough internal pressure to counter the outflow from the LEAK ! Thats why i flex my (ultra-strong) pc muscles, clamp my ass together, move my upper legs together and cross them to get it up...more pressure !

Ok now back to the understanding of the leak. Once you understand u will see everything in new perspective :

Study this picture exactly. Its basically from any part of the cavernous chambers. It works the same everywhere, but the head.

HEALTHY ERECTION, NO LEAK ! (http://www.aerzteblatt.de/v4/archiv/bild.asp?id=11847)

Left is flaccid and right is erect=no outflow (or 99,9% restricted)
Notice how the expansion of the spongy tissue CLAMPS OFF and restricts the vein !
A venous leak is NOT necessary a damaged vein, or very big vein. A venous leak is in fact the DAMAGED tissue AROUND the exact point where the vein enters the spongy tissue. Because of that damaged area (even if its small) this particular vein does NOT get restricted, EVER. Even if you have a perfectly healthy dick everywhere else. Healthy nerves and arteries.
Understand the importance of this ? Understand why vein ligations, revasculariszatio surgery mostly fail ß its because of this.
I think this directly realtes to me.

I DO have inflow. And you are right, as long as there is very good restriction (everywhere) you could fill a dick up to a rock hard erection, even if you had 1 tiny weak arterie and not 4 of them.

YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY WiTH THIS (just add this new information into the mix)

QUOTE :
"""OK, what changed in those 2-3 weeks? Or rather, what happened after the surgery to provide better erections? Any veins that you see in the shaft are irrelevant to erection quality. It only matters if the outflow is cut off, inside your body, from the dialation of the inflow vessels, and the increased blood pressure in that area. New veins in the shaft make no difference."""

The reason for success and failure is very simple :
Initial success was because they WERE LUCKY and did LIGATE the very exact vein that originated from the venous leak (damged tissue area). The problem is : They fixed the vein at the base, and my speculation is, since a vein is interconnected with other veins and has many branches, the vein simply rechanneled , somehwere between the VENOUS LEAK location and the cut end ! Once that happened, the outflow was unstopped.

So logically, to shut a venous leak down for good , you have to SHUT down the VEIN, FULL LENGTH , from the exact ENTER point into the leak , down the full length up to the base. Only then this LEAK is fixed/patched for good !

Ligation surgery can't do that fro obvious reasons, so there is only the option of attempting full length vein sklerosis.

THIS is the over-riding factor. I should be able to get 100% rock again even with my present arterial and nerve condition. The first 2 weeks (post) showed CLEARLY , that I do have what it takes to FILL a dick , but I don't have what it takes to KEEP the blood where it is.

Ok last but not least , with the new understanding of VENOUS LEAK in mind, you also got to understand , I didn't have a 100% rock hard erection in over a year. I mean really really rock hard with hardly any outflow.

So EVEN if the DO find the location of the venous leak , and even if the manage to sklerose the vein that comes out of that area. The blood chooses the pass of least resistance , just like water under pressure. A new venous leak CAN possibly open up ( if there is more damaged tissue in my dick ) That would have to get fixed too.

Man , just compare my dick to a sinking ship...(only with the (fluid-)flow , everything is in reverse :) )

I need to get the holes , all the weak spots PATCHED/FIXED in my love boat, so that I can sail again.

I guess , with this in mind , I don't have too much choice , rather than taking the crazy risk of a cavernosographie. I wonder if its theoretically possible to inject a contrast agents through the artries , leading into the penis , rather than hooking the penis to a pump. All they need to see is where the blood leaves/leaks at 1000% erection.

I guess thats the problem. I can't get a 1000% erection , naturally , with stimulation , injection , viagra..I guess this is why the hook peoples dicks to pumps, because they can PUMP SO MUCH into the dick (similar to what you were hintin at with the btb and the more inflow to fix my solution) so that the regular outflow is countered and the biggest hole (pressure finds its easy way) as in vENOUS LEAK is easily to identify.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Man In fact , i just had another lighning strike.
The area where I injured myself , is also the area where I got the fat veins. I know why:

EXCESSIVE PRESSURE ON THE VEINS oveR A LONG Penis EnlargementRIOD !!!! In a healthy erection , there is hardly any pressure on the veins...remember the picture...the veins blood access is restricted, so no pressure. In my case , I had an injury , so after that, the vein had full access to the blood and the pressure of the whole erection was pushing out of one hole (the venous leak location) where , after some time , the walls of the vein got fucked up. Same situation as with those veins (in affected people) , that run FROM the calves to the upper leg, fat, snaky , and hurtfull) There , they perform vein stripping , to get rid of this condition. Stripping leaves the same result as full length sklerosing. Cutting leads to rechanneling !


ok gotta go sleep over this...

i need to find a way of finding these leaks at minimal danger for the dick , and a way of shutting them for good !!!

pupper
07-08-05, 12:40 AM
Very interesting post guys,I wil reread when I am not exhausted.Just what does cause ED anyway? I neverhave had a problem with ED,now that I have got this pemchant for Viagra I don't even worry that it will ever cause me problems.There were times whith out viagra when I am tired that I will go soft,but I feel the use of viagra even in small doses causes nocturnal erections which I feel keep the ole pipes clean,so to speak.Bib.and Tbirdy what are your feelings on this?I do know that the viagra helps my blood pressure to stay within a safe realm,which I feel helps my erections,but like Bib I feel there are times when my erection could be better(with out the viagra)with viagra(even 25 mg my erections are rock hard and larger than the norm,I feel that P.E. has helped me to gain and inchand a half in both length and girth.I mean vein bulging erections that are like I hae a clamp on,what do y'all think?

Chi
07-08-05, 03:03 AM
Yep, great info, I am learning a lot. It's a good thing this thread didn't go to hell when it could have a few posts ago. Goes to show true maturity and good will from you.

I hope you nail this thing, good luck tbirdy.

tbirdy
07-08-05, 11:12 AM
Pupper, I know of 2 double-blind randomized studys performed on guys.
1 study was performed for 1 year , the other for 3 month.

1 study summery (its in german so i translate short version for u)

They took 140 guys and devided them into 2 groups. All of these guys had mild to medium ED. The first group was given 50 mg viagra each day,prior to sleep, no skipping days, for the time of one year. The second group was randomly given viagra, every couple of days for one year.
Both grups were closely examinated and had to stop all viagra intake after the year. The were checked and rechecked 1 month and 6 month after the study-year.

Results :
In the first group 58,8% regained a completely normal erection after the year and kept it without taking viagra after the year.
In the second group only 9,7% regained their erections.
In group 1 the systolic arterial flow ((PSV)) increased
from 29,4 + 9,8 cm/s to 38,9 + 10,3 cm/s !!!!!
In the second group a non siginificant improvement of + 3,0 cm/s was observed.

Those guys from group 1, who completely regained their erections and kept them for 6 month without viagra intake , were examined again for 6 month of no viagra intake (a total of 1 year without viagra) 95 % of these guys kept their regained erections !!!!

observation and explanation :

It was observed that daily, evening intake of 50 mg viagra , significantly prolonged nocturnal and morning erections.
A well train smooth muscle tissue , with many muscle cells and low collagen is very good for the erection. In fact this daily intake lead to a normalizing of mild and medium ED.
-----------------------------------------------------------

So thats why I advised orbital , who is suffering from mild ED to take the viagra daily in the evening. No skipping days!!!!!! I myself am currently on the same regime. However the studys also says , that this viagra training wll only work for guys with mostly intakt blood and vein vessels. I guess that means no luck for me...I still take the chance :)

But all you young guys with mild ED should instantly set yourself on this regime and follow it in painfull detail.
Forgot to mention , those 140 guys who were examined were 40 - 50 years old. So if old fucks can regain their erections, sure as hell you can !!!!!!

pupper
07-09-05, 12:12 PM
T,I can tell you from the standpoint of a 43 year old man (me)with a 40 year old wife,My wife in her sexual peak, myself also having a high libido but sometimes having to work long hours(and I'm in business for myself ),when you own the company you are tyed to it.Viagra taken reularlly has had very good effects for me not just in the bedroom but with rock solid morning erections,lower blood pressure and mindblowing orgasms,combine that with being highly sexual (lots of sex)in a monogamous relationship(which we both have a lot of love and trust for each other)It works,injuries or no injuries,I never neede the stuff before,but after tryig it,like bib was saying "erection quality"was betond compare,I did'nt get this hard when I was a teenager.Viagra is a very good product I feel,even with the reports of blindness and hairy palms(LOL).Viagra does not give you the libido though I feel that the right supplements,diet,exercise(which I don't get much of except in the bedroom)and a positive mental outlook give a person libido,viagra is an erection enhancing drug,that has a dual benefit of lowering blood pressure and enhancing erections.Also if you get morning wood you know your body is healthy.I'll pm you that info we talked about later,real busynow got to go,I'll write tonite(pm)

Bib
07-11-05, 06:20 PM
tbirdy,

>I have something new to add and something to clear up , because I feel you got it wrong. I definetly need your consultation, 2 brains are better than one. Maybe together we will find the missing clue !<

Well, I think we are looking at a matter of degree. You may not understand exactly how an erection is formed, but you have a general idea. I feel like you are discounting the importance of blood supply to getting a good erection. I still do not see where you know what you are working with.


>>"Can you give the general area of ORIGINAL injury?"

Yes, I can give the exact locations. First injury. 2 years ago. Affected area, left chamber , 1 inch away from base. Resulted in shortening and size loss in that chamber and deviation. Did alot of Penis Enlargement and got all of the girth back and straightend everything out. (Remember my "cure uneven chambers thread?") No big signs of ED. Then second injury. Bottomside, 2 inches away from base. Mostly affected the CS-chamber, wich never filled up as good after the injury including the head.<<

OK, now how did the injury occur? Trauma, bruising, etc? What does the injury look like? Give as much information as possible.


>Venous leak. And what EXACTLY it means.

I understand that your hinting at weak blood-inflow and that more inflow should cure my condition. You are right ofcourse. However, its totally unrealistic, no btb jelquing will ever build up enough internal pressure to counter the outflow from the LEAK !<

I am not saying you are wrong, but how do you know that? The amounts of pressure we are talking about, and the difference between a weak erection, and a good erection, are minute. It does not take much.

>Thats why i flex my (ultra-strong) pc muscles, clamp my ass together, move my upper legs together and cross them to get it up...more pressure !<

That does not do much to cut down on return blood flow. It is just enough to help. Greater blood flow can do the same thing. Tell me this: Have you ever used a cock ring? If so, how did it work? How long did it take to get an erection? Relatively hard or easy?

>Ok now back to the understanding of the leak. Once you understand u will see everything in new perspective :

Study this picture exactly. Its basically from any part of the cavernous chambers. It works the same everywhere, but the head.

HEALTHY ERECTION, NO LEAK !

Left is flaccid and right is erect=no outflow (or 99,9% restricted)
Notice how the expansion of the spongy tissue CLAMPS OFF and restricts the vein !
A venous leak is NOT necessary a damaged vein, or very big vein. A venous leak is in fact the DAMAGED tissue AROUND the exact point where the vein enters the spongy tissue. Because of that damaged area (even if its small) this particular vein does NOT get restricted, EVER. Even if you have a perfectly healthy dick everywhere else. Healthy nerves and arteries.
Understand the importance of this ? Understand why vein ligations, revasculariszatio surgery mostly fail ß its because of this.
I think this directly realtes to me.<<

I do understand all of that. But it is not a one shot deal. There is more than one opportunity to cut off return blood flow, and if the artery dialation, and incoming blood supply are great enough, it will still cut off return flow, even in damaged tissues. That is simple physics. If you can do it manually, or with a cock ring, you can probably do it naturally, with a greater blood supply.

>I DO have inflow. And you are right, as long as there is very good restriction (everywhere) you could fill a dick up to a rock hard erection, even if you had 1 tiny weak arterie and not 4 of them.<

But how confident are you in your blood supply, and why do you have this confidence? Did the Dr do any tests?

>>The reason for success and failure is very simple :
Initial success was because they WERE LUCKY and did LIGATE the very exact vein that originated from the venous leak (damged tissue area). The problem is : They fixed the vein at the base, and my speculation is, since a vein is interconnected with other veins and has many branches, the vein simply rechanneled , somehwere between the VENOUS LEAK location and the cut end ! Once that happened, the outflow was unstopped.<

I do not think so. Especially not in two weeks. I believe you need to totally rethink this vein thing, and do not assume that cutting off return flow is your fix.

>So logically, to shut a venous leak down for good , you have to SHUT down the VEIN, FULL LENGTH , from the exact ENTER point into the leak , down the full length up to the base. Only then this LEAK is fixed/patched for good !<

No, this is not how it works. You can shut the return flow off, at any point up to the main veins within the body, and acheive an erection, as long as there is sufficient blood flow into the shaft. You are putting way too much attention into the return veins. I do not think that is your problem at all.

BTW, take everything your Dr says with a grain of salt. Remember, he does not eat unless you have a problem.

Further, there is a lot of info on the web about venous leakage. Most of what I saw suggested treating by increasing the incoming blood flow FIRST. Most by taking Viagra, Cialas, or Caverjet. But I am thinking a couple weeks of BTB jelqing will fix your problem.

>THIS is the over-riding factor. I should be able to get 100% rock again even with my present arterial and nerve condition. The first 2 weeks (post) showed CLEARLY , that I do have what it takes to FILL a dick , but I don't have what it takes to KEEP the blood where it is.<

This is the one point I can see that fully supports your position. That you get an erection, and then slowly loose it, does mean something. But still, with greater internal pressure, the return blood can be more effectively cut off, and the erection stay.

>>Ok last but not least , with the new understanding of VENOUS LEAK in mind, you also got to understand , I didn't have a 100% rock hard erection in over a year. I mean really really rock hard with hardly any outflow.<<

That is not unusual with decreased inflow also.

>So EVEN if the DO find the location of the venous leak , and even if the manage to sklerose the vein that comes out of that area. The blood chooses the pass of least resistance , just like water under pressure. A new venous leak CAN possibly open up ( if there is more damaged tissue in my dick ) That would have to get fixed too.<

I just do not think so.

>>Man , just compare my dick to a sinking ship...(only with the (fluid-)flow , everything is in reverse )

I need to get the holes , all the weak spots PATCHED/FIXED in my love boat, so that I can sail again.<<<

NO! You cannot possibly have that kind of damage. You are completely off the deep end, thinking this way. Before you continue to try and plug every return vein, at least try to solve this by increasing blood flow. At least try a couple of weeks of light BTB jelqing.

>>I guess , with this in mind , I don't have too much choice , rather than taking the crazy risk of a cavernosographie. I wonder if its theoretically possible to inject a contrast agents through the artries , leading into the penis , rather than hooking the penis to a pump. All they need to see is where the blood leaves/leaks at 1000% erection.<

Yes, I believe they can inject contrast into the blood stream. Not positive though.

Without this kind of test, there is not even any way to see what the problem is. This test would also rule out a supply side problem. If there were no, or little leakage, at a high pressure, then you would know you do not have a vein leakage problem.

>>I guess thats the problem. I can't get a 1000% erection , naturally , with stimulation , injection , viagra..I guess this is why the hook peoples dicks to pumps, because they can PUMP SO MUCH into the dick (similar to what you were hintin at with the btb and the more inflow to fix my solution) so that the regular outflow is countered and the biggest hole (pressure finds its easy way) as in vENOUS LEAK is easily to identify.<<

Yep, that's it.

>i need to find a way of finding these leaks at minimal danger for the dick , and a way of shutting them for good !!!<

Just take it one step at a time, and take the LEAST invasive steps first. Do not be in a hurry. The least invasive step may be to increase the incoming blood first.

Bigger

REDZULU2003
07-11-05, 06:26 PM
Tbirdy if you can get hold of it, try spraying Glycerol Nitrate onto your penis and that should absorb into your penile bloodstream and make the vessells openmore and hence increase bloodflow.
Make sure you read it up before attempting it, see my thread on the main section.
Also BIB makes sense with what he's saying here so listen to the guy.

orbital
07-12-05, 07:07 PM
Bib,

I just read your post where you addressed my concerns about smooth muscle. My ideas were mostly speculative, gathered from a few (relatively intensive) weeks of research on erectile dysfunction. I don't really know much at all.

Thanks for your considerate response. I am going to a Urologist here in Pittsburgh tommorrow, July 13. I don't understand the extent of my ED. In fact, my ignorance is one of the worst parts about this ordeal for me.

By the way, how are you doing Provider? Is anything improving? How about you, Tbirdy?

Keep us informed.

tbirdy
07-16-05, 07:48 AM
@bib

But how confident are you in your blood supply, and why do you have this confidence? Did the Dr do any tests?

There shouldn't be a problem with the blood supply, remember , they performed a full duplex on me and found all 4 arteries to be working within normal ranges.

------------------------------------------------------------------
more info on venous leak :

source :http://my.weBathmated.com/content/article/4/1680_50142

---------------------------------------------------------
Venous leakage is a relatively common cause of erectile dysfunction. An inability to achieve and maintain the full erection occurs because blood leaks out in the presence of an adequate arterial inflow due to a damaged veno-corporo-occlusive mechanism. There are five theorized types of venogenic impotence.

Type 1 is due to the presence of an excessively large number of veins exiting the corporal body. This is probably congenital and is seen in young men with primary erectile dysfunction.

Type 2 is the weakening of the tough outer membrane of the corporal membrane of the corporal body known as the tunica albuginea, resulting in poor compression of the veins, such as in elderly men. I consider this a wear-and-tear phenomenon.

Type 3 is the loss of compliance of the cavernosal smooth muscle because of Peyronie's disease or scarring degeneration in patients with severe hardening of the arteries.

Type 4 is poor relaxation of the cavernous smooth muscle due to inadequate release of the hormones it takes to create an erection. This is typically common in heavy smokers.

Type 5 results from abnormal communications between the corpora cavernosa and the spongiosum due to trauma or a prior procedure to treat priapism. Patients with pure erectile dysfunction on the basis of a venous leak are rare, but many men have venous leakage as a component of their erectile dysfunction. Many years ago, we felt that this was a major problem, and during the early 1980s a great deal of venous leakage surgery was performed. We found that patients with specific venous leakage due to congenital abnormalities or specific trauma type situations do well with these types of operations, but the majority of patients do poorly. We still feel the first choice for patients who have venous leakage is a vacuum erection device or treatment with intercavernosal injections. The only patients who are candidates for a venous leakage operation are patients who have failed simple, noninvasive treatments.

Many people have attempted surgery for venous leakage. A host of different procedures attempt to make the diagnosis. All these techniques basically try to measure the pressures required to make blood leak out of the corporal bodies. Cavernosography is the technique of injecting dye into the corporal body to identify a leaking blood vessel. Prostaglandin is first injected to create an erection and then dye, which potentially identifies the site of the leakage. The results of these diagnostic procedures have not been dramatic.

When it has been determined that the patient is a good candidate for repair, the idea of treatment is to find the vein that is the source of the leakage and then tie it off. If the leaking vessel is near the base of the body, then an incision is made over that area. We feel that good candidates for venous surgery are those who have identified a localized leak and who have had a complete workup to rule out all the obvious causes for erectile dysfunction, including the Duplex Doppler examination. Surgical candidates should be nonsmokers, young, and have no other medical problems. A preoperative X-ray examination called the cavernosogram should identify the site of the leaking vessel.

The complications with this type of operation are numerous, as with all operations. They include numbness of the penis, scarring, a shortening or twisting of the penis, and painful erections.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So what I have to do next, so I was told by the other specialist is :

1. Get an MRi done to measure the desnity of the tunica albuginea and Bucks Fascie/Fascia Penis profunda. In order to check for injurys or cuts or leaks in those tissues.
-I will soon see a specialist who is specialized on ED and treating Induratio Penis Plastica. Incase I have a damaged tunica, with diffuse blood leakage, there is a op technique called "patching" (very invasive, but It could help me.

2. Get another VERY GOOD dfull duplex ultrasound scan with 40mg injection this time. In order to search for possible leak locations and display the arterial situation one more time.Get the results of the MRi and duplex (images and text) burned on cd for further investigation by the specialists in the other country.

this should cut through the fog some more...

I personally still have my hopes high for for the "one or 2 vein leaks from the cavernous body" situation. The first 2 week after the op strongly support a situation like that :)
If those veins wouldn't have rechanneld, I'd still be rock hard and 6" girth....
i thik those 2 weeks prooved, that the nerves, veins, smooth/spongy tissues and arterial supply is good enough , the only variable changed were the veins, at the base....

man how i wish all of this was over !!!

orbital
07-29-05, 04:41 PM
Still worrying about my erection problems. Bib, I found something that echoes what you said about smooth muscle. The article says that smooth muscle is highly flexible, and is not damaged by over stretching. Here is a link (the info is at the bottom of the page)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:uNYWtDlSrm4J:www.lander.edu/rsfox/112muscl.html+what+happens+to+torn+smooth+muscle&hl=en

Looks like you were right!

Provider
07-30-05, 06:27 PM
Hey guys. I haven't really read much of these long posts on the thread but just to let you know its finally time for my urologist visit. It's on tuesday afternoon.

orbital
07-31-05, 01:09 PM
Provider, be careful. I saw a urologist, and he was pretty dimsissive. Nice guy, but he did a little manual examination of my penis, took some blood and urine to be checked at the lab, checked my ass for prostatitis, gave me 3 pills of Cialis, and told me about some medically approved cock rings. You probably won't be happy if that happens to you, but you may not be able to get anything more than that from anything but a specialist. I pressed my doc a little bit and he said he could refer me to a guy at the Cleveland Clinic. I'm in the process of trying to make that happen.

Provider
08-01-05, 01:11 PM
Ye thanks. I have a bad feeling this is going to happen to me tomorrow. I really hope it doesn't!

orbital
08-01-05, 02:11 PM
Has your problem improved? Mine hasn't changed substantially.

Provider
08-01-05, 05:55 PM
Nope, sometimes it seems like its improving a bit but I don't think it has really.

orbital
08-03-05, 05:37 PM
How did your visit go Provider?

Provider
08-04-05, 03:21 PM
It went ok thanks. He just asked me some questions and took some blood tests so nothing really happened. He said he can't really do anything until he gets the results from the blood tests which will be a week or two so I'll just have to wait until then.

Provider
08-30-05, 08:11 PM
I had an ultrasound scan today for my erection problems. They injected my dick with god knows what then scanned it. They didn't find anything though and said it seems normal. Looks like I'm gonna be stuck with a small dick that doesn't get fully erect.

When I found Penis Enlargement I thought it was one of the best things thats ever happened and now it looks like it's one of the worst.

Splack
08-31-05, 09:24 AM
Hey provider do you still get horny or has that gone away too?

Provider
08-31-05, 04:43 PM
Yea, I still get horny, my erections are just a lot weaker. Not rock solid like they use to be.

awwdarn
09-02-05, 05:49 AM
same with me...is there a cure yet? As i am only young too!

Splack
09-02-05, 07:40 PM
Well considering the tests haven't shown anything its highly unlikeley that your problem is physical. Causes of ED are many and varied while studies on the subject are relatively few. What I'm saying is we don't know whats wrong and neither do the doctors so my suggestion to you is start taking pills. I'm serious tbirdy had a post about some 3 month study done with viagra which looked pretty promising. I think thats def worth a shot. So go back in this thread read it and consider trying it, you've really got nothing to lose and tbirdy really knows what he's talking about despite what some may say.
Another option is to ask your doctor for a Yohimbine prescription (not to be mistaken with Yohimbe) and try that, usually they'll give you a 3 month regiment of pills. Many people have had success with this.
Also mentally just relax, stop trying to force it, in a way just kind of accept it dont pay too much attention to it, even when your masterbating just ignore your dick concentrate on enjoying yourself. Most of all stop viewing this as a problem, try to leave it out of your day to day thoughts. Yeah this is hard but in time you can train yourself to do this.
I do not suggest magna rx, enzyte or any of that other crap you see on tv and the internet.
For now thats all I can come up with just remember you have many options that you haven't exhausted so don't worry. My suggestion is start with the yohimbine (only because it's the less extreme option), forget about your problem as best you can, dont think about it and in time without you even thinking about him your dick just might pop up and say hi with the same enthusiasm he had before your problems began.

Splack
09-02-05, 07:42 PM
Here someone posted this a few days ago. More tests you can do that way you can eliminate the possible causes of your problem and be able to better search for a solution.
http://my.weBathmated.com/content/article/4/1680_50142

Duppi_KronKite
09-03-05, 01:02 AM
What you need are some pharmacy grade fish oil tablets, and some Viagra.

I have problems like you do from time to time and for me its 10% physical 90% mental. You see, if I pop a tab of Viagra before fucking a broad.. just the thought that I just popped the viagra gets me rock hard and im ready to go. Keep in mind that half an hour later the viagra finally kicks in. Why would this be unless it was mental?

And the fish oil tabs make ya horny as hell for some reason. There is something in em like DHT or I dunno a 3 letter word though.

But ya if I was you id grab some Viagra just to prove to urself its mental. Then maybe pop blue skittles and tell yourself it is Viagra and watch it have the same effects.

Provider
09-05-05, 07:37 AM
I don't have any mental problems. I have a gf and it gets hard loads when I'm with her and we have sex, it just doesn't get fully hard. I'm lucky she is on the pill because if I had to use condoms it would be a nightmare. I know the problem is definately physical. I am only 19, I don't want to be taking viagra or any shit like that. I shouldn't need it and I can't afford it

REDZULU2003
09-05-05, 10:25 AM
Provider try the ROP, my erections are LOADZ better from it and it does work.
I cant say for the test increases because its early days but it helps your erections ten fold, and I recommend the guy matts22 whos a member here to make them.

Provider
12-30-05, 10:02 PM
My erections still aren't back to normal. I am having a MRI scan in a weeks time.

orbital
01-06-06, 10:28 PM
Hey Provider,

My dick is still messed up, too. I don't think you or I will get much better, unfortunately, but hopefully I'm wrong. However, I was reading an article that talked about ways to reverse fibrosis (scarring). Heres the article:



L-arginine and phosphodiesterase (PDE) inhibitors counteract fibrosis in the Peyronie's fibrotic plaque and related fibroblast cultures.

Valente EG, Vernet D, Ferrini MG, Qian A, Rajfer J, Gonzalez-Cadavid NF.

Division of Urology, Research and Education Institute, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA, USA.

Inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) is expressed in both the fibrotic plaque of Peyronie's disease (PD) in the human, and in the PD-like plaque elicited by injection of TGFbeta1 into the penile tunica albuginea (TA) of the rat. Long-term inhibition of iNOS activity, presumably by blocking nitric oxide (NO)- and cGMP-mediated effects triggered by iNOS expression, exacerbates tissue fibrosis through an increase in: (a) collagen synthesis, (b) levels of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and (c) the differentiation of fibroblasts into myofibroblasts. We have now investigated whether: (a) phosphodiesterase (PDE) isoforms, that regulate the interplay of cGMP and cAMP pathways, are expressed in both the human and rat TA; and (b) L-arginine, that stimulates NOS activity and hence NO synthesis, and PDE inhibitors, that increase the levels of cGMP and/or cAMP, can inhibit collagen synthesis and induce fibroblast/myofibroblast apoptosis, thus acting as antifibrotic agents. We have found by immunohistochemistry, RT/PCR, and Western blot that PDE5A-3 and PDE4A, B, and D variants are indeed expressed in human and rat normal TA and PD plaque tissue, as well as in their respective fibroblast cultures. As expected, in the PD fibroblast cultures, pentoxifylline (non-specific cAMP-PDE inhibitor) increased cAMP levels without affecting cGMP levels, whereas sildenafil (PDE5A inhibitor) raised cGMP levels. Both agents and L-arginine reduced the expression of collagen I (but not collagen III) and the myofibroblast marker, alpha-smooth muscle actin, as determined by immunocytochemistry and quantitative image analysis. These effects were mimicked by incubation with 8-Br-cGMP, which in addition increased apoptosis, as measured by TUNEL. When L-arginine (2.25 g/kg/day), pentoxifylline (10 mg/kg/day), or sildenafil (10 mg/kg/day) was given individually in the drinking water for 45 days to rats with a PD-like plaque induced by TGF beta1, each treatment resulted in a 80-95% reduction in both plaque size and in the collagen/fibroblast ratio, as determined by Masson trichrome staining. Both sildenafil and pentoxiphylline stimulated fibroblast apoptosis within the TA. Our results support the hypothesis that the increase in NO and/or cGMP/cAMP levels by long-term administration of nitrergic agents or inhibitors of PDE, may be effective in reversing the fibrosis of PD, and more speculatively, other fibrotic conditions.

MeSH Terms:
• Animals
• Apoptosis/drug effects
• Apoptosis/physiology*
• Arginine/pharmacology*
• Blotting, Western
• Cyclic GMP/analogs & derivatives
• Cyclic GMP/pharmacology
• Enzyme Inhibitors/pharmacology
• Fibrosis/drug therapy
• Fibrosis/enzymology
• Fibrosis/pathology
• Humans
• Male
• Nitric Oxide/metabolism
• Nitric-Oxide Synthase/metabolism
• Penile Induration/drug therapy*
• Penile Induration/enzymology
• Penile Induration/pathology*
• Penis/drug effects
• Penis/enzymology
• Penis/pathology*
• Pentoxifylline/pharmacology
• Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors/pharmacology*
• Phosphoric Diester Hydrolases/genetics
• Phosphoric Diester Hydrolases/metabolism*
• Piperazines/pharmacology
• RNA, Messenger/chemistry
• RNA, Messenger/genetics
• Rats
• Rats, Inbred F344
• Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
• Research Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.
• Reverse Transcriptase Polymerase Chain Reaction

Substances:
• Enzyme Inhibitors
• Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors
• Piperazines
• RNA, Messenger
• Nitric Oxide
• sildenafil
• 8-bromocyclic GMP
• Pentoxifylline
• Arginine
• Cyclic GMP
• Nitric-Oxide Synthase
• inducible nitric oxide synthase
• Phosphoric Diester Hydrolases

Grant Support:
• G12 RR 03026/RR/NCRR
• R01 DK 53069/DK/NIDDK

PMID: 14996430 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



The article difficult to understand, but some things that popped out at me include the dosaging required to reverse PD fibrosis in this study. I'm not suggesting you or I have PD, but perhaps we have fibrosis in our corpus cavernosa that is impeding inflatability and limiting veinous occlusion. L-arginine isn't too expensive, so maybe you could try that.

To all other readers, I'd like to express how terribly painful losing good functionality in my penis is for me. Some days I feel like I'll never be a viable lover again, and sometimes I wish I didn't exist so I wouldn't have to suffer with this. However, I did it to myself, and so it is no ones fault but my own. Still...

Let us know how your MRI goes man. I have a feeling that the test won't show anything wrong, and you'll be told that nothing is wrong with your penis.

Provider
01-11-06, 02:37 PM
Hey,
I had the MRI scan done. It was the worst thing ever. I hated every second of it. They said they will pass on the results to my specialist and I should get the results back in a couple of weeks. I'm doubtful they will find anything with it though.

I've tried using L-arginine before and also ZMA and I am currently using penis pills and have been for the last month and a half. The penis pills contain L-arginine and ginko and tribulus and lots of other stuff. I didn't notice any difference from these products at all. Not even more frequent erections or increased horniness. Let me know how you get on with it though. I guess it works for some and not for others.

I am quite lucky because I have been in a long term relationship when I damaged it and I am still with her. Shes been on the pill which is good cause I doubt I would have much luck using a condom when I can't get good erections. I feel scared to leave her though because I doubt I would find someone as understanding straight off and because I couldnt use a condom. I really hope this gets sorted because I don't see how my life will be the same if it's not. I am only 19.

Provider
01-31-06, 02:53 PM
I got a letter from the doctor today saying the results of my MRI scan were fine and so are all the other test i've had so basically im fucked. Great.

orbital
01-31-06, 07:46 PM
Yeah dude. I had a strong feeling your results would return as normal. Whats good is the results probably indicate there aren't any obviously serious structural problems with your penis. Have you considered a doppler sonography or something to measure blood flow? I'm truly sorry to say this, because I'm in the same boat, but you're probably gonna have to live with it. You can keep trying other doctors though. Sometimes problems go undetected by professionals for a long time.

jtmorgan10
02-01-06, 08:03 AM
It might be good to get a doppler test done, but it is my hunch that will also show up normal. I had both an MRI and a doppler and they showed up as normal. And I think you said your penis is not visibly different. Mine totally is. You can see and feel the difference in my flaccid. It`s like a totally different dick. It has no bulk or elasticity in the flaccid state. It`s just a weak piece of rubber that feels like the tissue has totally been blown out of it. But it still looks normal in the tests, which is really messed up.

I think people on these forums have a hard time believing a lot of this stuff. Especially the fact that we didn`t necessarily overdo it compared to a lot of people. I know I was too erect for some of my jelqs each session, but I tried to avoid it and let my erection subside as I neared 100%. I wasn`t purposely doing erect jelqs, I just would get erect from the stimultion. I think that`s a common problem that many guys would say they`ve experienced. But somehow my unit got completely fucked up. The last time I tried, I could get almost a full erection with oral sex before penetration, but I only get half erections at night and spontaneously, and they are very weak and rubbery because my dick has somehow been deformed inside. The head is often cold, and I have discoloration. Yet the urologist can`t pinpoint any particular problem that could be addressed.

I keep wondering how this happened to me when I know there are thousands of other guys who do much more dangerous stuff, even though I am sure many people read my posts and think I must have been doing something totally out of whack much more dangerous than what they do.

This is totally fucking up my life. I had an awesome life before I got into Penis Enlargement, but now I feel like I am on the brink of suicide all day because I have a gorgeous girlfriend who I thought I might possibly marry. We could have had a wonderful life potentially. I know our relationship won`t last much longer and I don`t know how I am going to be able to get on with my life knowing that I may likely be effectively impotent for the rest of my life. Viagra doesn`t even really make a difference for me. This whole situation has devastated me, and I`m sure you guys can relate. I contacted a guy on another forum who said his gradaully got better by abstaining from sex and masturbation for a long period of time (and stopping Penis Enlargement of course). So you might want to consider that. Good luck to you.

Pandora
02-01-06, 10:00 AM
I got a letter from the doctor today saying the results of my MRI scan were fine and so are all the other test i've had so basically im fucked. Great.

Yo dude u might want to try upping ur routine working even harder try hanging make sure u do btb jelqing and jelqing and kegels and do an insane work out but it must only be length not girth.

Buy a Power assist if u dont have one this will make ur erections harder.

IXL
02-01-06, 06:57 PM
I don't know how often you stretch your penis but I've noticed in myself that after a good 30-40 min. stretch routine I will get a good erection after I've taken a short nap.

tbirdy
02-10-06, 09:14 AM
hey orbital , that is a truly amazing article that you've posted.
Despite the fact that it works for mice only , so far....

Untill now fibrosis and scarring of the corpus cavernosum was totally irreversible, if such a fibrosis was pinpointed to be the cause of your erectile dysfunction, than your only remaining option would be a "penile implant".

That article sparks some hope to reverse it AND it also totally corelates with the studys i posted: Those where hundreds of guys were given viagra daily for 3 - 6 month and after that their erections (tumescence + bloodflow) considerably improoved - most importantly , Penis EnlargementRMANENTLY, they did not have to take viagra any longer to keep the effects after the test duration..


@jtmorgan10

""""This is totally fucking up my life. I had an awesome life before I got into Penis Enlargement, but now I feel like I am on the brink of suicide all day because I have a gorgeous girlfriend who I thought I might possibly marry. We could have had a wonderful life potentially. I know our relationship won`t last much longer and I don`t know how I am going to be able to get on with my life knowing that I may likely be effectively impotent for the rest of my life. Viagra doesn`t even really make a difference for me. This whole situation has devastated me, and I`m sure you guys can relate."""""


---> Man, listen. I totally feel what you are saying there, I've been there, with exactly the same mindset, thoughts, also in a long term relationship, I can totally relate to everyting you say. Now since, alot of time passed since then let me tell you one thing...eventhough it may SEEM to you as the END of the WORLD and your life for you - ITS NOT..its just a phase and you will eventually get through it, the sooner, the better...infact I really stress the word SEEMS...it only appears to be so bad because you think about this and only this ED problem of yours ALL the day AND whats even worse you are relating your relationship problems and most probably EVERY problem that you have or MIGHT get in the future to ED. (You worry about things you cannot control like the past or the future)

Do not dwell on it. I understand its hard for you because you are probably young and your mind hasn't matured enough to cope with stress like that. Thats why this this problem takes up all your universe...

..lemme give you some simple advice to get you started feeling good again AND get you on the right track to recover.

1. Accept the fact that you have ED. Stop thinking about it as your BIGGEST and only problem and the missing puzzle to a succesfull life. Only YOU can effectively hinder yourself from achieving those "goals/ dreams" in life that you mentioned <<<"We could have had a wonderful life potentially. I know our relationship won`t last much longer and I don`t know how I am going to be able to get on with my life knowing">>> Notice how you keep mentioning yourself and her or both of you ? Thats because IT IS UP TO YOU AND HER to make it last. Your dick is probably the least important factor in a possible future marriage or the current relationship. You just allow it to get to you, and once it gets you down it reflects on everything else...but only because YOU let it happen !!! Every second marriage gets cancelled after 1 year of marriage. Do you think its because all those guys had ED ? Hell no , its due to cummunication problems/inabilitys/weak charakters/lack of personality/commitment/ WORK !!!!!! and so on.


2. GAIN KNOWLEDGE. Know your enemy ! Pinpoint the reason behind your ED. Don't obsess, inform yourself !
You are obviously lacking alot of knowledge when it comes to ED, you need to do much better research - I promise, the more you know, the less you will have to worry about things (you didn't know before and still feared them).
Hint: The knowledge and all possible reasons and also all up-to-date cures were already researched by me and others on this forum , you can find the information in my posts (clicking on profile and clicking on "view all posts or threads by tbirdy).
If you did so you wouldn't say things like :
" I may likely be effectively impotent for the rest of my life." Well did you know that you could get an instant cure by a modern undetectable penle implant that totally simulates a real erection and your orgasms and sensivity remains the same , so ? What do you fear.
That above is highly unlikely and definetly not neccessary for you right now, but its still a possible fix to a possible condition in the future wich you wouldn't worry about if you knew about the cure.

another example ?

"Viagra doesn`t even really make a difference for me."

Well DID you even try that 3 - 6 month daily 50 mg before sleep routine as mentioned in the study done in 2005 that effectivly cured many many men with medium erectile dysfunction ( exactly what you have) ???

Besides, I have a feeling that you are either unconciously shitting yourself or me :
You say viagra doesn't really make a difference AND that your dick is oh so fucked up but then last time you tried :

"The last time I tried, I could get almost a full erection with oral sex before penetration, but I only get half erections at night and spontaneously, and they are very weak and rubbery because my dick has somehow been deformed inside. The head is often cold, and I have discoloration."

You fucking got it up had sex , had nighttime and spontanious erections...WTF ? Seems like light to medium ED to me and that eventhough it doesn't work 100% like it used to , it still works !!!!

So how can you be devasted ? Pls totally shut the fuck up bout even mentioning suicide ??? What the hell ??? What for ?

You do know that viagra at any dosing STILL needs a sexual stimuls ( you need to feel the urge and get turned on) in order to work ??? So do yourself a favour : Don't touch your dick for a week (as in no mastuarbation ejaculation) then plan a romantic day with your girl , nice dinner and shit , take 100 mg viagra 2 hours before (the 2 of you prbably get down) get a blowjob from here , and THEN come back telling me viagra didn't make a difference...

Well ok now , I don't want to be to harsh, just trying to get your head straight again...you should have nuff inout and ideas to get you started in the right directions...




BACK TO THE ARTICLE :

"When L-arginine (2.25 g/kg/day), pentoxifylline (10 mg/kg/day), or sildenafil (10 mg/kg/day) was given individually in the drinking water for 45 days to rats with a PD-like plaque induced by TGF beta1, each treatment resulted in a 80-95% reduction in both plaque size and in the collagen/fibroblast ratio, as determined by Masson trichrome staining. Both sildenafil and pentoxiphylline stimulated fibroblast apoptosis within the TA. Our results support the hypothesis that the increase in NO and/or cGMP/cAMP levels by long-term administration of nitrergic agents or inhibitors of PDE, may be effective in reversing the fibrosis of PD, and more speculatively, other fibrotic conditions."


Jeeez,
L-arginine (2.25 g/kg/day), pentoxifylline (10 mg/kg/day), or sildenafil (10 mg/kg/day) was given individually in the drinking water for 45

In humans =
I would need 191,25 g Argnine , 850 mg of pentoxifylline,
and or 850 mg Viagra....

Ok obviously it doesn't translated from mice to humans without killing the human with the above combo...
so I think what would do the trick is taking the highest allowed/confirmed non poison dosing of each drug daily.

Viagra = Confirmed 100 max , but probably 150 spread throughout the day will be possible.

l-arginine 6-15 grams per day.

and only the pentoxifylline is no problem because an adult can take up to 1200 mg in 3 dosings spread though the day...


Well since all of these drugs do fuck with your blood pressure and heart beat (lowering one and upping the other) its probably safest to try this routine with 10 g arginine and 1200 mg pentoxifylline daily and see what it does for you after a month or 2...

This totally looks like the next step in the right direction:
The studys I mentioned used only viagra for 3-6 month and got great results,
its also proven that l-arginine helps with erections if taken in dosing above 3 grams for a long enough time..so both of them combined would probably have a synergetic great effect. This wasn't tried yet and I can#t tell if its safe to try in the future because each of these drugs do lower your blood pressure significantly and if combined , you could drop dead...

so take care if your willing to try...i wouldn't do this without daily control by a trustworthy doctor that monitors all your body functions especially your heart....
besides , who says you couldn't get the same "mice" effect on humans with 50 mg viagra and 3 grams l-arginine daily...hasn*t been tried yet...

ok, last but not least

IXL and PANDORA

I guess you are trying to help the guys in this thread but what you are doing is equally to: Telling an alcolholic who got in all of his problems BECAUSE OF THE ALCOHOLE , to drink even more , and , better , and harder liquier to solve his problems...

that will not do it :)


~ peace tbirdy

tbirdy
10-19-07, 01:55 PM
ba-ba-ba BUMP !!!!!!!

Combine my last post in this thread with

10INCHADVANTAGE's thread on CHEMICAL ADS

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30863


and all you people suffering from any type of ED or damage have something
worth trying out !

Basically, u either use 50mg V before sleep daily for 6 month

or do the same with cialis 10-15 mg every 4 days for 6 month

in an attempt to reverse fibrosis and clean up your arteries, improove your blood flow.

And last but not least, take bib's "jelquing behind the balls to free up possible plaque" advice in consideration. (Though its risky I think, plaque in system = possible heart/lung/brain arterie obstructions)

The First advice by me is backed up by studys , it worked for many men, so try it out. The second is probably a even better way with less side effects...

and the last one has to be discussed to the fullest yet.


p.s. What happened to the guys and their problems in this thread ???

80sBaby
10-19-07, 02:35 PM
Hey guys,
I have been having some real erection problems and it's really starting to piss me off. I haven't been able to get erect properly for about 2 months now. The most it gets is like 75% erect on its own. I started to so some more girth work and then my erections got weaker. This is the routine I was doing:
- Hot wrap
- 5 mins of manual stretching
- 10 mins of wet jelqing
- 10 x 40second ULIs
- Hot wrap

Before that I was just doing a jelqing routine or something. I really wanted some more girth so I started doing the routine above for a while and it was going fine until my erections started getting weaker. The routine isn't even intense, especially compared to some other guys, and I'd been Penis Enlargementing for quite a while so didn't see a problem doing this routine. I did it most days. When I started getting the erection problems I kept up the Penis Enlargement but not as much. Then when they didn't get back I stopped Penis Enlargement. I've stopped Penis Enlargement for a month now, apart from the odd wet jelqing session, and they still haven't come back properly! It's really annoying me now.

I know it can't be a mental thing because this has happened to me before when I started to do more girth work. I stopped Penis Enlargement and the erections came back after about 3-4 weeks. But that hasn't happened this time.

I also don't think it can be mental because it does get like 70% erect or whatever but just not full. It feels like theres just not enough blood going into it. I get girls and it still doesn't get fully hard. If I am masturbating or doing something with a girl it may get 85% erect max but if you leave it alone it will go back down to 50% or whatever after 20 seconds or something!!

I do my kegels and I do the odd wet jelqing session to try and promote blood flow. I even took ZMA for about a month to try and boost my testostrone and erections etc but it still didn't help. I've got down masturbation a lot too.

Theres no noticable difference in my cock just by looking at it so I don't know what it is. I can only think my cock is damaged some how and not enough blood is getting into it or something like that.

Please guys, don't advise me to take viagra or anything like that because I am 19 and shouldn't need that shit and I also can't afford it!

I am only 19 and I can do without this shit in my life. My girl is getting bored with it. My cocks small enough as it is and I can do without not being able to get fully erect so it's even smaller!

If you guys can help at all it would be much appreciated. I will asnwer all questions you have etc. Please help.

Cheers

I still think the best solution for injury prevention is to do 5-15 minutes of hot wraps in between EACH exercise. Yeah, it will take longer, but it will slow your workout and prevent rushing.

MrNilsen
10-20-07, 11:19 AM
I'm taking 50mg viagra prior to sleep, and I also bought the TENS (electrostimulation) machine that Tbirdy suggested. I can repost my experience after a few months.

Provider
10-20-07, 05:41 PM
Hey guys, just logged into the forum for the first time in months and clicked new posts. Can't believe this thread was there hahaha! I'm 21 now and my erections are no better I'm afraid. I've kind of gotten use to it but it's pretty shitty and sex isn't as good. I haven't Penis Enlargement-ed in ages - might take it back up again and see if I can gain anything.

tbirdy
10-21-07, 02:50 PM
@ MrNilsen ! Hats off to you my man ! Infact you are the very first person , that I know off who is willing to follow advice and actually try something -as in: do the work , then do the talk !!!! My respect for that. I wish you all the best.

@Provider ! Just out of interest ! Am I correctly assuming that u haven't tried all the available remedys as suggested to you, and basically just gave it up and gave a fuck about it... ???
Be honest about it. (..mostly to yourself ;) )

@Everyone else:

Guys, reading this " Boo Boo's and Band-Aids" Forum is really making me said sometimes. Such a huge lack of information, always the same questions, always lack of patience and lack of motivation to try things to the end.

Just some facts and some Food for thought ( to get your heads right):

-ED is NOT a myth !

-Every form of ED is curable nowadays !

- The only question u ever need to ask yourself when it comes to yourself , your Dick and any ED is A) Can I have SEX with it.

If the answer is YES ! You are perfectly healthy...

-Ed is not a myth but it is indeed a long and stressfull way to diagnose and pinpoint the EXACT reason for your lack of erection strength:

Why ? Because SO MANY things can be responsible for ED. I call it variables.
Variables divert your attention from the REAL reason behind your ED.

Thus Variables have to be excluded one by one first, in order to find the real reason ! Why ? Because each of them could be solely responsible for your ED.

There are many variables: (I just give you a couple, random list straight out of my mind. not step by step guide!)

- Food. Eating habits.
- Water intake.
- Sleep. RhytHydromax and duration.
- Psychology. Menthal setup.
- Biochemistry balance inside your brain. Serotonin/ Dopamin
- Hormonal Balance inside your body. Testosterone. DHT. Oestrogen. Lactin.
- Stress
- Genetic setup. Anatomy of your penis.
- Nerves. Nerve damage.
- Vein Damage. Small Vein leakage. Dorsal vein leakage. Vein Blockage. Damaged vein valves.
- Ateries. Artery damage. Artery blockage. Plaques.
Wrong Cross Junctions between arteries and veins.
- Bloodflow. blood inflow out flow ratio.
- Heart. Heart problems.
- Diabetis
- Liver problems.
- Peyronies. penile bending.
- erectile tissue damage. erectile tissue fibrosis.
- Penis Enlargement. Overtraining.
- Bodybuilding. Overtraining. Even regular training.
- Damage in the tunica albuginea. Inability of the tunica albuginea to expand and thus clamp of the veins so erection can occur.
- Masturbation. Frequency. Overmasturbation. Lack of it. use it or loose it
Lack of stimulus. Too much porn.
- Propecia/Finasteride. Surpressing of hormones.
- Drug abuse. Alkohole. Weed. Extasy. Speed.

Ok I realize I'm beginning to repeat myself because many of these are interdependent and lead to each other.

But your are getting an idea of it don't u ?

The list goes on and on. And if you want a 100% functioning dick you better make sure u can exclude ALL of these.

Besides u CAN be, in like half of these groups and still Have a functioning dick
as long as you can Answer the most importent question ( A) !!!!! ) With yes.
Can I have sex with this dick ? Yes ? = I'm Fine.

No ? Exclude variables ! How ?

Again there are so so many different ways to exclude those variables..
wich start at observing your own health related habits...going to urologists,
having your hormones tested, menthal therapy..and continue into more risky, invasive stuff such as cavernosographie ( to display the venous/arterial system of ur ED- dick via x-ray thus finding/excluding possible vein leakage or arterie blockages.)

The cures are also a big list. Starting from eating, sleeping , drinking, thinking, sporting right, to natural supplements, such as tribulus, arginine, maca, red ginseng, and zillions others, to chemicals such as caverjet injection or my favourites viagra, cialis, vardenafil wich INFACT work wonders for men even with severe ED. Reversing fibrosis by daily viagra intake (50 mg), permanently increasing blood in flow by daily 50 mg viagra/cialis intake, And again then come the risky invasive cures, such Penis Enlargement ( yes it can fuck u up but it can heal u too - you will realize what its doing when its too late, thats the sad truth) then vein ligation. dorsal vein ligation. vein sclerosing. arterie sclerosing. revascularization (= redirecting arteries or hooking penile arteris to bigger main arteries inside the body for stronger blood inflow), penile straightening for bends or peyronies, patching of holes inside the tunica, and last but not least penile implants, but even there u have many options starting with simple
mechaincal implants and the most expensive penile implants with hydraulic pumps that simulate natural erection by inflating deflating with water or air.


As you can see there is cure for EVERYTHING !!!

Its up to you really and YOUR priorities.
You have to make priorities.
Your highest should always be question A) Can I have sex with this dick ?
Because thats what a dick is made for. FUCKING! Reproduction..not showers, gyms, Penis Enlargement, your buddys or anything else. Its really only fucking.

Why priorities ? Because thinking logically, its better to have a 90%, 80%, working dick or even 60 % working dick wich you can always extra-boost to 110% with viagra rather then do any of the risky stuff (screening , surgery , Penis Enlargement !!! ) and end up with less than u had...


Whats the good news ? None of you people, alomost nobody here has severe ED to a point where he would need Penile implants. All u people can fuck on viagra, u have no loss of quality in your life. And the best news, most of your conditions are completely permanantly reversable by doing simple things, such as eating, sleeping, drinking , not obsessing, INFORMING !!!!!!!!!! yourselves, taking viagra, cialis sporadically or as a daily treatment and

most important : DON't worry be happy with what u (still) have !!!!!!! You always could have less , and the little bit more is NEVER worth the risk...
If you DO take the risk..good luck to you , but pls shut the fuck up whining later, because u yourself was a greedy bastard, who wasn't happy with what he had in the first place !!!

THE DICK IS FOR FUCKING !!!

Amen...

Provider
10-23-07, 05:50 AM
tbidry: ye I did give up trying to fix it. Last time I was at the urologist he said all they had done all the test they could do and they came back fine and he said I should just wait a couple of years and maybe it will go back to normal - which it hasn't.
I can still get erection and fuck it's just not a great quality erection and sex isn't as good. It's just missing that extra edge that it use to have when it would get fully rock and feel great. Even on cialis it doesn't get fully rock like it use to.

I've tried going to the doctors etc and tried doing light Penis Enlargement, hot/cold wrap treatment to try and make it better. Tried just leaving my dick completely alone. But none of those things have worked. I can't afford to be taking viagra everyday to see if it will make my cock better.

I think I will just take some light Penis Enlargement up and stay away from girth work to see if I can gain anything and maybe improve erections.

tbirdy
10-23-07, 10:30 AM
@ Provider

I feel for you man. But pls tell me why don't u try and put yourself
on a daily 50 mg before sleep generic viagra routine...for atleast 3 month
and see what this will do for u. I mean it less than 50 buxx investment and
u will get permanent blood inflow improovement.

Or try 15 mg cialis every 4 days...it will soon build up in your system and you will have problems fighting of boners wich last for many hours, rather than having to worry about getting erect.

And the most important thing is just take the V or cialis but don't think or care about ur dick anymore...all of ur problems could very well be solely menthal...

if u do as I suggest u will trick ur mind...ur erections WILL definetly improove very quick if on a daily supplement..and u will not worry anymore...

And again, urologists ARE BAD ADVISORS WHEN IT COMES TO ED. They don't know shit. They are good at everything covering the urinary tract. Their knowledge is based on 20 years ago studying and only in the last couple of years, many new treatmeant for ED were discovered, be it through medicine or surgery... these guys don't even know the correct anatomy of the penis...how the hell are they supposed to help you. They can't even diagnose a venous leak (don't have the machines nor x-rays) how the hell can the honestly say u don't have one ? Say dynamic cavernosometrie and they will look at u like u were speaking chinese....

MrNilsen
10-24-07, 02:36 PM
quote:

@ MrNilsen ! Hats off to you my man ! Infact you are the very first person , that I know off who is willing to follow advice and actually try something -as in: do the work , then do the talk !!!! My respect for that. I wish you all the best.


Thank you for your support, but if there is anybody that should "take their hats off", it should be me for you.
Your post has been very informing regarding the studies you have pointed out, and the psychological issues that a man young man goes through after Penis Enlargement damage.

I acutally went to a psychologist this summer (no need for that anymore), and he told me about a patient that he had some time ago that was 100% impotent after an operation gone bad, and simply listen to what he went through made come to the conclusion that either way what happens with my ED I will never, ever get depressed for this shit. Depression can also be very bad your health and certainly your erection.

To shorten up things a little bit: the tens machine works nice, with a little mr. V in the system and the stay longer during my sessions. I can have sex with almost the erection once had with 100mg of viagra, and every now and then I wake up with morning wood.

I will post here after a while about my experience about this regimen, and to those that suffers the way I am, all I can say is: Keep your head up, and try it out.
I will certainly never, ever get depressed over this shit again.
That's my story for now.

Quantum Reality
10-24-07, 07:57 PM
Regular masturbation has been proven effective at getting good erections back, mainly on stimulating bloodflow and having the mental feel of getting some daily.

hyperlite
10-25-07, 07:24 PM
can you tell me about the ROP or whatever you recommended to Provider for better erections.. Im having serious problems myself.

Thanks

Moony"B"Finch
10-25-07, 08:10 PM
Apologies if this has already been said, but where should I get the Viagra from? Is there a good place online to order a lot for cheap? I'm curious about trying the 50mg every night idea as I sometimes have problems. Thanks in advance!

tbirdy
10-26-07, 07:58 AM
As far as I know there are a couple of generic viagra sites associated with MOS
so ask DLD for guidance or search yourself in the health or sexuality sections of this forum.

Or just google through different forums where people reported back that they actually ordered some V from a certain site and recieved it and were satisfied.

I myself have a good trustworthy site myself so pm me too if you like...

I think its not allowed to paste any links as this could come off as advertisment..

so its up to you really...

@ Hyperlite

if you were directing your question to me ,
No I did not advise Provide to try the ROP, but to put himself on a daily V treatment as you can see in this thread...
I tried the ROP myself years ago , it kinda worked..but really I don't need anything zinging my balls maybe causing cancer or something alike in the pelvic region.... there are no studies on ROP--what will happen after 10 years... nah man fuck dat... let supra make his money with it, its none of my buisness...

Moony"B"Finch
10-29-07, 09:15 PM
tbirdy-check your pm's, thanks

pleasehelpme
03-16-08, 10:10 AM
My Experience

Nilsen, how is your tens routine going?

I experienced symptoms of E.D, almost instantaneously since 6 months ago after an episode of prolonged masturbation, in which I forced ejaculation when I was having some trouble becoming erect. Although I HAVE NEVER DONE P.E., the mechanism was IDENTICAL to jelqing (milking action) and performed a peniso that would have been semi-hard to hard, which I now know is dangerous.

On that day, I noticed my penis seemed a little swollen, and seemed to be slightly firmer in a flaccid state, and this worried me immediately since I KNOW what my penis should be like flaccid. Since then

* I have lost all spontaneous erections, and morning erections
* My penis becomes tumescent, but not rigid - it is 70% erect at best, without stimulation and it is floppy at the base
* I can stimulate myself to a near full erection, but it will disappear rapidly without continual stimulation
* When I stand up, I will lose my erection and the rigidity disappears.

Physically, I have noticed that

* My penis feels firmer in a flaccid state – the tissue feels ‘tougher’, a lot more rubbery, more springy, and less soft than before
* My penis feels slightly colder, maybe 5 degrees.
* It does not retract into the foreskin as much as it used to. It is actually slightly bigger (and harder) in its flaccid state. and I think the increased weight and size means that the head doesn't go back in.

I have had a few tests, but none have shown anything abnormal

* Doppler US with caverject came back normal
* Ultra sound without caverject came back normal
* NPT showed one good erection in the course of three sleeps
* My response to pde-5s is o.k., and although it makes it easier to get hard, it is also quite easy to go soft.

i agree that these Penis Enlargement exercises CAN be dangerous, espeically wehn not performed properly. My whole life has changed in a day, and my symtpoms have persisted for the last 7 months.

I bleieve it could soft tissue damage. it might be something intermediate between healthy tissue and fibrosis or mild scar tissue. If anyone's got a recommendation, I'd like to hear it.

hyperlite
03-16-08, 02:39 PM
I have similar issues. See my posts for my story if your interested. It sounds to me like it could be scar tissue. If your experiencing hardened areas on your penis, this is most likely scar tissue. My specialist has given me Verapamil to rub on the hardened areas. This cream is supposed to soften up the scar tissue and allow for more expansion when erect. He has also put me on a new once a day cialus.

pleasehelpme
03-17-08, 07:56 AM
Hi Hyperlite,

you mentioned you got better. It's been 7 months and I haven't, so just wandering how it just snapped back for you?

Cheers,

Richard

hyperlite
03-17-08, 11:10 AM
Its been a long story,

I first noticed my injury about a year ago, I woke up one morning and my penis was dead. My penis remained "dead" for about 5 days and then one day it just turned around and came back within minutes. I figured it was some kind of blockage or something so I took about 2 weeks off and then got started again. I did 2 days of light jelqing and woke up again with the "dead" penis. Since then I have been dealing with ED and my flacid penis has changed alot. I think time and rest is the only thing that has helped me so far. I will see how this cream and cialus goes.

pleasehelpme
03-18-08, 09:10 AM
Hi Hyperlite,

Thanks for sharing that. I am in touch with some people who have similar conditions and we believe a collective effort might help us get taken seriously by the otherwise skeptical and dismissive urological community. I've got survey results on six people who have pretty much given me their clinical history. I think if we can get 10 or so, a research doctor might take us a bit more seriously.

Whilst I never engaged in P.E., I completely understand how it has caused many people to be injured. For myself, I never did P.E. exercises, but when I injured myself, the mechanism would have been akin to jelqing and a semi-erect to fully erect penis. I therefore issue my case as a warning.

Do you get the firm-flaccidness. It's a very strange phenomenon and my only explanation is that there is some sort of soft tissue damage, or scar tissue has replaced normal tissue.

Anyways, i'd like to hear a bit more of your story, and I have read all your preivous posts as well. 1. I was wandering if you were still in touch with jtmorgan or orbital.

2. Also, is your tens thing still wokring

3. What do you think of tbirdy's advice of nightly viagra?

Regards,

hyperlite
03-18-08, 11:28 AM
I have seen a few Urologists since my injury... With the exception of my current specialist, they have all been very short with me and less than understanding. I live in Canada so our health care system is different. It took me around 5 months to get in with my latest Dr. His name is Dr. Jay Lee. He is supposed to be one of the best ED doctors in the Country. I told him about my jelqing and everything that I experienced. He was really understanding and knew about the effects of jelqing. He said that scar tissue is one of the most common injury in Penis Enlargementing. When you stretch out or over work the tissue, the cologen can repair itself improperly. Anyways he said there were a few methods to reverse or soften up the scar tissue, one being the cream im using. The other method is a once a month injection straight into the scar tissue. He said this method hurts like hell, but people have seen results in just 3 treatments. This is my plan B right now.

Ive only been on the once a day cialus and the cream for a week. Dr. Lee said it takes about 5 days for the body to build up enough cialus for it to be completely effective. Remember, im on a smaller 5mg once a cialus. Dr. Lee said that once a day cialus wont reverse scar tissue, but it can help with permenant blood flow over time. This cream is a long term treatment, 6-12 months he said. I have noticed increased rigidity for erections and more spontanius + morning erections.

I will keep you posted as I learn more. Tbirdy has been very helpful, he has been through some of his own issues and has done alot of research. I never did get ahold of JTmorgan, I dont know where he stands with his problems.

I like your idea of getting a bunch of people together and talking to a specialist. I could deffinately help you out with that. Let me know the details.

abcd3
03-18-08, 01:00 PM
I have seen a few Urologists since my injury... With the exception of my current specialist, they have all been very short with me and less than understanding. I live in Canada so our health care system is different. It took me around 5 months to get in with my latest Dr. His name is Dr. Jay Lee. He is supposed to be one of the best ED doctors in the Country. I told him about my jelqing and everything that I experienced. He was really understanding and knew about the effects of jelqing. He said that scar tissue is one of the most common injury in Penis Enlargementing. When you stretch out or over work the tissue, the cologen can repair itself improperly. Anyways he said there were a few methods to reverse or soften up the scar tissue, one being the cream im using. The other method is a once a month injection straight into the scar tissue. He said this method hurts like hell, but people have seen results in just 3 treatments. This is my plan B right now.

Ive only been on the once a day cialus and the cream for a week. Dr. Lee said it takes about 5 days for the body to build up enough cialus for it to be completely effective. Remember, im on a smaller 5mg once a cialus. Dr. Lee said that once a day cialus wont reverse scar tissue, but it can help with permenant blood flow over time. This cream is a long term treatment, 6-12 months he said. I have noticed increased rigidity for erections and more spontanius + morning erections.

I will keep you posted as I learn more. Tbirdy has been very helpful, he has been through some of his own issues and has done alot of research. I never did get ahold of JTmorgan, I dont know where he stands with his problems.

I like your idea of getting a bunch of people together and talking to a specialist. I could deffinately help you out with that. Let me know the details.

sorry but you wrote that u have morning errections ? whats your problem then, what else should happen that u think that your penis works..

i havent seen them for 1 year now, after i hurt my self and im just 19.
pretty stupid right .

jeanclaude
03-18-08, 05:33 PM
It might help if you go to some sexclub.
Here in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany there are some pretty good gangbangs.


First read on the internet what is a good party and then join anonymously. Don't know however how it works in the country you live in.

The good thing is that many things are possible, nearly no limits, but of course it is safe sex. Then this could easily boost you.

It keeps you also from focussing on getting results (by the practices), sometimes it is better to step out of the routine an change things.
So those gangbangs are fun for some times and break the routine.

ixi
03-21-08, 12:09 PM
hi all,

i got exactly the same symptoms as jtmorgan. flacid penis felling shrinked,going hand in hand with a very firm strange feeling, darker color than before etc...
since 1,5 years, still no improvement! since than, daily life became pretty fucked. i'm afraid of sex and getting in touch with girls since all this happened to me.
went through a bunch of urologist, no one could find anything! :(
i have the feeling that i also have a scar tissue on the back side of my penis.
went through all the tests, you can imagine. nothing!

i got a tens machine but did not get the clue what it is all about?
i use it against back pain. do you guys treat your penis with with it? advice please!
sorry, for my english, i'm from germany. i would also be very grateful about more detailed inormation about cialus. where to get it from how to use it?
and what are the side effects of it?

if you think, you could help me or have some questions.
post here or send me a pm.

i wish you all the best folks. we may never give up!
hope jtmorgan is ok...

YES Penis Enlargement IS DANGEROUS! and i just did light routines nothing compared to some others here.
i wish i never tried it. now i have to deal with the outcome.

BazookaJoe
03-21-08, 12:17 PM
I think it's a side effect from p.e . As an example yesterday I did a lot of girth work,and today I woke up with like a 90% erection.

A lil while after a i woke up and wanted to measure,I got hard but it wasn't the normal hard on. Id peak at 100% then it quickly go down.

It's from fatigue. In a day or two my erections will be back 100% from my expereinces.

pleasehelpme
03-21-08, 12:38 PM
Hi ixi and others,

Don't keep saying it's just fatigue from P.E. when it has been 1.5 years. That is clearly an uninformed opinion and does not help.

Ixi, what tests have u had ? Doppler US? NPT?

What was your response to PGE-1 injections and pde-5s

Cheers,

ixi
03-21-08, 12:56 PM
Hi ixi and others,

Don't keep saying it's just fatigue from P.E. when it has been 1.5 years. That is clearly an uninformed opinion and does not help.

Ixi, what tests have u had ? Doppler US? NPT?

What was your response to PGE-1 injections and pde-5s

Cheers,

sorry, mate. i not a pro when it comes to all those terms.
pge-1, pde-5? sorry, says nothing to me.
no offense! i got a "skat" injection once and ultrasonic researches often.
all of the urologists can't find no scar tissues or any indication about my problems. i also got a a burning pain around that point where i feel the scar on the downside of my penis, that pain is still there during erections what makes it extremly hard to keep it hard because of the pain.

any info about how to use the tens regarding to this and are there any risks? people who maybe already tried it?

cheers mate

painisgrowth33
03-21-08, 02:45 PM
Hi IXI,
Please pm me , or PLEASEHELPME, you email and join our mailing group. We have about 10 guys with the exact same problem, and we are all focused on finding the cure. I have had this condition for over a year, and it has only gotten worse. I'll let you know everything i have tried, but don't give up and keep fighting. Could you describe in detail what you did specifically that caused the injury? Streching, light jelqing, or masturbation?

BazookaJoe
03-21-08, 03:02 PM
Well
1.hope you guys find a cure.

2. I didn't read dude saying that he's had developed ed from p.e that lasted over a year as I just read his firt post....

MrNilsen
03-21-08, 03:09 PM
hey, guys...

I have tried the tens machine, it does work, but the pads are clumpsy and difficult to attatch.

What has worked for me is simply taking cialis every 3rd or 4 days, and also wearing a cock ring while having sex.

I still have some discomfort in the ligaments, and feels a little "de-attached" at the base. Erection angle is the same as before, but I can tell that the ligaments are weakend. I also probably have som venous leakage.
I have taken an ultrasound test with an erect penis before, the result came out normal.

That's pretty much my story for now...
It turned out OK, for me, but I can remember how it was before I started with cialis, not the best time in my life...

MrNilsen
03-21-08, 03:11 PM
forgot to add...

I have also had successfull sex, almost every day lately..

Hope my posts give any hope

ixi
03-21-08, 04:21 PM
thanks for all your kind responses. you are some great bunch of people.
everyone who has went through this or still is experiencing this physical and as time goes by more an more psychical pain is realy grateful for any advice.
i will write an pm to painisgrowth33! thanks for your offer!

@painisgrowth if you got any informations please share it for others that maybe need help.

i wanna mention that i stoped pe after it! no one can convince me to fix the problem with starting pe again. pe is history for me.

ixi
03-21-08, 04:35 PM
hey, guys...

I have tried the tens machine, it does work, but the pads are clumpsy and difficult to attatch.

What has worked for me is simply taking cialis every 3rd or 4 days, and also wearing a cock ring while having sex.

I still have some discomfort in the ligaments, and feels a little "de-attached" at the base. Erection angle is the same as before, but I can tell that the ligaments are weakend. I also probably have som venous leakage.
I have taken an ultrasound test with an erect penis before, the result came out normal.

That's pretty much my story for now...
It turned out OK, for me, but I can remember how it was before I started with cialis, not the best time in my life...


hi mr. nilsen,

how long did you wear the tens machine? doesn't it hurt? i'm afraid it would cause some damage. but it's an idea i had a long time ago, before i read about it here. what effect does it has?

could you send me a link of the kind of cialis you are using?
i will visit my doc and ask him about them.
they are not that cheap i think?
boy, i would give anything for my old pecker if i just knew what would bring
help.

thanks in advance!

ixi
03-21-08, 05:05 PM
My Experience

Nilsen, how is your tens routine going?

I experienced symptoms of E.D, almost instantaneously since 6 months ago after an episode of prolonged masturbation, in which I forced ejaculation when I was having some trouble becoming erect. Although I HAVE NEVER DONE P.E., the mechanism was IDENTICAL to jelqing (milking action) and performed a peniso that would have been semi-hard to hard, which I now know is dangerous.

On that day, I noticed my penis seemed a little swollen, and seemed to be slightly firmer in a flaccid state, and this worried me immediately since I KNOW what my penis should be like flaccid. Since then

* I have lost all spontaneous erections, and morning erections
* My penis becomes tumescent, but not rigid - it is 70% erect at best, without stimulation and it is floppy at the base
* I can stimulate myself to a near full erection, but it will disappear rapidly without continual stimulation
* When I stand up, I will lose my erection and the rigidity disappears.

Physically, I have noticed that

* My penis feels firmer in a flaccid state – the tissue feels ‘tougher’, a lot more rubbery, more springy, and less soft than before
* My penis feels slightly colder, maybe 5 degrees.
* It does not retract into the foreskin as much as it used to. It is actually slightly bigger (and harder) in its flaccid state. and I think the increased weight and size means that the head doesn't go back in.

I have had a few tests, but none have shown anything abnormal

* Doppler US with caverject came back normal
* Ultra sound without caverject came back normal
* NPT showed one good erection in the course of three sleeps
* My response to pde-5s is o.k., and although it makes it easier to get hard, it is also quite easy to go soft.

i agree that these Penis Enlargement exercises CAN be dangerous, espeically wehn not performed properly. My whole life has changed in a day, and my symtpoms have persisted for the last 7 months.

I bleieve it could soft tissue damage. it might be something intermediate between healthy tissue and fibrosis or mild scar tissue. If anyone's got a recommendation, I'd like to hear it.

i can underwrite all of that points. i'm glad i found someone with the same problem.

MrNilsen
03-21-08, 10:48 PM
I pretty much just tested it on a few occasions. It tingles for the most part, you can also use it to do kegels, which I am planning on doing soon.

I have been using expencive cialis lately and they work pretty good on me.

I have also bougth tadalafil (cialis) powder, to mix with alcohol and this will give you liquid cialis.

here's the site from where I bought it from:

http://www.elitenetpharmacy.com/pd-tadaiafil.cfm (el cheapo powder)

And here is how you mix it: http://www.freewebtown.com/webslave/recipe.html

I haven't tried the homemade liquid mix yet, but if works as good as the original, than I am in for some cheap fucking (pun intended)











hi mr. nilsen,

how long did you wear the tens machine? doesn't it hurt? i'm afraid it would cause some damage. but it's an idea i had a long time ago, before i read about it here. what effect does it has?

could you send me a link of the kind of cialis you are using?
i will visit my doc and ask him about them.
they are not that cheap i think?
boy, i would give anything for my old pecker if i just knew what would bring
help.

thanks in advance!

pleasehelpme
03-24-08, 09:42 AM
Hi Mr Nilsen,

I was just wanting to clarify what you meant by after CIALIS, it turned o.k. for you. Do you mean that your erections have gone back to 100% normal and how they were before your injury or that CIALIS has helped you gain some function and that you are satisfied with it, even if it's not as good as before.

My experience with CIALIS is that it improves things, but it's still not the same as before. Although CIALIS makes it easier to get hard, it still goes soft without vigorous pumping. That is, the erection is not 100% stable.

Also, although the shaft becomes more rigid, it is still floppy at the base and upon standing up, the erection will collapse (under the weight of gravity) within 30seconds or so. Before, my erections used to be a flagpole and it'd hurt to try and move it down. Now its hard in the shaft but still floppy around the base. How does this compare with you?

Regards,

Rich

MrNilsen
03-24-08, 06:48 PM
My erections are still not 100 %, but I use cialis to promote erections and sexual desire. The cock ring makes the real difference to me.

When it comes to you're injury it seems like we have somewhat of the same symptoms, although mine are not as severe as yours.

I'm 100% sure that in my case it's trauma to the penile suspensory ligament, and if you google: "penile trauma loose at the base", you'll find similar posts about this.
My ligaments are probably still present, but weak, and I hope they don't get any weaker.
I've also had rough sex once while being drunk and that made the ligament hurt again, so I'm still careful while having sex, but I do enjoy it, and so does the girls that I'm with, and that is why I think that it turned out OK for me..

pleasehelpme
03-25-08, 09:10 AM
Hi Mr Nilsen,

Thanks for that information, and responding to my questions. I guess you might have been at my point (asking people as much as you can) at some stage -I have tracked your history.

1. What did you take (l-arginine? Vitamen E?) and what has worked for you in getting you to this point of recovery now? How long did it take?

2.Can I ask you - do you feel your injury is just to your suspensory ligament or to the erectile bodies? At the moment, you have said its to do with suspensory ligament, but in the past, you've actually said 'the cavernosa doesn't fill up like it used to'

I'm not sure whether our conditions are related to suspensory ligament or soft tissue damage.

3. If its just suspensory ligament, theoretically, it would fill and stay hard, although it would be kind of floppy still, but the blood flow to the chamber is adequate.

4. if it is too the erectile body, it would fill, but because it doesn't fill 100% or there is some sort of venous outflow, it would still be slightly floppy AND it would detumesce easier.

Can you please tell me what you think it is

Thanks agian,

Richard

MrNilsen
03-25-08, 02:53 PM
Again, I am in no way recovered from the injury, and I haven't used any of supplements mentioned above.
My theory are simply based on stories read on urologist forums and Penis Enlargement forums.
Whatever the reasons for my ED are it doesn't matter since I function on sporadic intake of 20mg cialis and a cock ring, and most importantly I don't worry about it anymore, and never, ever let myself get depressed over it.
When it comes to trauma to the suspensory ligament, please read this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/62355.php

I have many of the same symptoms, but I still function with the aid mentioned above.

pleasehelpme
03-26-08, 11:47 AM
Hi Mr Nilsen,

Thank you for sharing that with me. I think I really might be in the same boat as you. I can still have sex - everyday, even twice a day with pills. It feels good, but it doesn't feel the same as before and this really brought down my world down before.

I really admire your attitude to the whole thing. I'm in contact with about 10 others by email and there's about 4 who are seriously considering suicide. Your repsonse and attitude refreshes me, and reminds me not to get too down over it.

In any case to let you know, we correspond and share our thoughts on this condition. I've compiled a clinical survey on these guys and their conditions, and a lot of them are in contact with top urologists (which unfortunately for me, all happen to be in the states). I have seen 7 - none of whom have helped. However, our group's collective experience has been very informative (and cost-effective) methods in finding out medical opinions.

Please PM if you'd like to join.

Cheers,

MrNilsen
03-26-08, 01:31 PM
Well, thanx for the thumbs up, but I can assure you that it wasn't like this right after accident. Even though I have never considered suicide, my mind went "LOCO", I just couldn't face the facts that I have self induced ED.
I know I have written in earlier post about taking viagra every night and using the tens machine, but I never got to do it seriously, simply because I was too depressed. And if you think about it, if you are depressed, how the hell are you supposed to get erections and get the benefits of viagra/ cialis etc.

Also if you read about T-birdys posts (this guy is class act), you will see that the main reason for his success is simply that he didn't it let his ED drag down forever. And now he enjoys sex with a full, big hard on, just by taking 50 mg viagra before getting his groove on.
And if you read about how his dick was before he started taking viagra chronicly, you'll see it was even more messed up than my injury. So, hopefully will get better over time.

My point here is, that maybe we should also focus on getting over depression and then getting our dicks and sex life back.

pleasehelpme
03-29-08, 08:00 AM
Hi guys,

I'd like to make a few points about the conditions that I think we might be suffering.

Scar Tissue, Nerve Damage, or Suspensory Ligament
1.Our condition (far from being detectable) seems to be scar tissue, either in the erectile bodies, or of the tunica caused by vague trauma (Penis Enlargement exercises, excessive masturbating, sex injury). Some people have then postulated nerve damage, because the sensation is less. I think the sensation is less perhaps because the erection is not stable, rather than nerve damage. Some of you have also pointed to a sensation of coldness. I think it could actually be colder, rather than just feeling colder.

Someone told me that it is simply damage to the suspensory ligament and gave me the following. Whilst damage to such a ligament would cause E.D., it wouldn't account for some of the other things we are experiencing, such as firm flaccidness, temperature change. Also, for some of us, the pumping mechanism of injury does not square with such damage. This is more probably relevant who damaged their penis by a penis fracture or sex injury - some sort of bending of the erection.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/62355.php

If scar tissue is the cause, we may have something in common with people with Peyronie's, except whereas their scar tissue is focalised and a plaque, our fibrosis is diffuse and throughout the cavernosa. Please read the following
http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,580.msg10635.html#msg10635
for an excellent discussion of the such similarities.

There has been a fair amount of research done on the matter, and whilst it is informative, it lacks depth. Here is a link that documents basically the entire research done in the field of scar tissue in the penis: http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:72935 . It will save you a lot of time if you want to know what's been researched. These are no doubt, the greatest minds in the planet on the topic of E.D.

If such scar tissues is present, then our smooth tissue is prevented from contracting properly (hence it appears firmer than usual in flaccid state) and ALSO from relaxing properly which prevents proper erectile function. I still don't know why this sort of thing can't be detected. Or maybe it can...

Biopsy - Is this THE diagnostic tool?
A lot of us have gone through a lot of tests - Doppler US, Caverject, NPT, and the very painful cavernosagram (I do not recommend this based on some of the other members' experience). None of these are apt to show whether E.D. is present and in fact have a problem. IN fact, they do more harm than good, because it reinforces to the doctor that we don't have a problem. This is not the correct conclusion. If we fail one of these tests, then we definately do have a problem. But just becasue we pass them does not mean we are 100% normal. A lot of doctors I have seen use positive results on the test to say that it is psychological.

Michele, have you tried this yet?

IN contrast, I think we need more powerful diagnostic equipment and that we have such equipment at hand - the biopsy. It can determine the structure of the penis (e.g. % of smooth muscle etc) and to compare it to a normal person. This will tell us exactly about the scar tissue etc I was referring to becasue it is evidenced as collagen or fibrin. Here is a link that explains the usefulness of the biopsy test http://www.current-reports.com/article.cfm?PubID=SH01-2-1-01&Type=Article&KeyWords=

My question is has anyone ever tried this, or even know if they can try it. I don't think we have this in Australia. other members believe it to be unsafe and to actually cause further fibrosis, but I don't think it would cause more than injectables.... I think if we took this test, it could give us the right diagnostics. Opinions, anyone?

Gene Therapy. Tissue Engineering and other cures?
Lastly, I still believe Science is on our side. They are constantly developing new methods of stimualting erection. Here are some of the options currently available, and others on the horizon

1. Injectables - inject hormones that stimulate erection. I personally responded well to PGE-1 two weeks after injury, but not sure if I would at this point in time. Alpostridil TD cream is the same thing, but hte mechanism of absorption is via a cream rather than a needle, as is MUSE.
2. PDE-5s/Pills/Viagra - inhibit PDE-5 which allows for greater creation of NO
3. Gene Therapy ( 5 years away from commercial viability) - inserts a gene which tells the smooth tissue to allow more Potassium Ion Channels to open. The overexpression of these ions stimulate erections. This is a major advance and I personally believe this will work with Cialis.
4. Tissue Engineering (Attala has shown a working prototype at least for Rabbits) but is decades off.... unless of course, someone will fund it. Here, I believe the technology is pretty much there, but it is not economical to begin research because even if they could create new penises (they can actually clone people ffs, why is this so difficult?), they won't because the few people who need this sort of procedure (us) could not afford the 100,000 it would cost, and I doubt our insurances would cover it.

For all of those of you who are having somewhat darker thoughts, I believe you should be at least patient because gene therapy is fairly novel.

I invite discussion on anything I just said.

Regards,

Man_vs_wild
05-06-08, 08:08 AM
OH MY GOD. I hate to see that others have to know the pain of this, but I'm glad I'm not alone. A GOOGLE search just led me to this page and I had to instantly join. Heres my (quick version) story:

I started doing Penis Enlargement when I was 16 and by 17 or 18 had all the damage you guys mention here UNDOUBTEDLY DIRECTLY LINKED to Penis Enlargement(jelqing, stretching): no morning/night/spontaneous erections(lots of manual stimulation needed to get to even a fraction of what I used to and should be), colder overall, firmer when flaccid, discoloration, etc, EVERYTHING that JTMorgan10 mentions.

More importantly, I know the pain and depression one feels about this, and had become suicidal for a while. I didn't commit suicide, obviously, and met with a urologist, Dr. Jeffrey Upton, M.D. in Carson City,NV who quite honestly, wasn't terribly helpful in that he obviously had no idea what was wrong, did not take me to have a serious problem, and prescribed me with sample packs of VIAGRA LEVITRA, and CIALIS, telling me he'd give me a prescription for whichever one I liked bestust taking them every time I hasd sex would cure the problem. I believed him. I chose Cialis for its long-lasting effects, but quite honestly, it didn't help much. I met a girlfriend, and with the aid of the Cialis and the trust of our close relationship, I could have sex with her, however it continued to not be what it should, and although she was relatively inexperienced I'm sure she could tell. This made me feel pathetic and lame; TRUST ME GUYS, I KNOW this feeling all too well. Long story short, after about a year we broke up(this was several months ago) and the girls I've been with since, I've embarrassed myself with.

Guys, please let me know of anything you haven't mentioned in the forum that may help, I'll be going into the doctor soon to get another Cialis prescription, and I'll try the once-a-day thing and hope it works.

PM ME TOO, as I'd like to keep in touch with you guys. You're right, also, if we get enough people together, we should be able to get medical science to look at this problem much more seriously.

Guys, as corny as it sounds, I dream of a day when we all get up in the morning to full hardons, fuck our wives/girlfriends with all the youth and vitality of non-injured men, and we only trade e-mails to talk about how great our lives are now that we have our problem fixed, and can focus on other areas of self-improvement.

Until then, lets keep trying to figure this one out. Thank you in advance for your support/advice. I hope we can get this taken care of

pleasehelpme
05-06-08, 08:24 AM
Hey Mate,

Could you email me at pleasepleasehelpme@gmail.com as there are a few of us on my mailing list who have this problem. There are survey results from about 10 of us and they are wiling to share so long as you also fill out such results.

There are some interesting things going on with gene therapy and tissue engineering, but they are some years off.

Regards,

proggypete
06-07-08, 09:29 AM
well I'm pretty new to the whole Penis Enlargement game, but tbh after reading a few threads in here i've been totally put off continuing the exercises, my girlfriends never complained about my size i just wanted to increase my penis for myself, but there seems to be a large amount of injuries noted in here which have scared me off :(

littlejohn
06-11-08, 08:18 AM
hey guys

I made the "Serious problem! I'm really worried" thread which basically says we both have the same problem (loss of sensation, erectile dysfunction, harder to stay erect, penis hanging unusually/differently, etc.)

I recovered from the injury pretty well. I can get 100&#37; erections now (I even "tent" when I get morning wood) and feel around 70-80% what used to feel (from feeling like I was perpetually wearing a condom, hardly felt any pleasure, it was horrifying). I'm hoping to get back to 100% feeling since the injury was only a month ago

Anyway, I think I recovered this greatly because I got really good advice from a guy named kingpole at The Penis Enlargement Gym Forums. You need to:

1. STOP ALL Penis Enlargementing
2. Give your penis a rice sock/warm compress for 30 minutes a day (I ran mine in hot shower water though). It should be warm enough that your unit radiates heat a few minutes after.
3. Take "Ginkgo Biloba" 120-240mg pills until everything is back to normal. It helps improve circulation.
4. Take Fish Oil pills

I am DEFINITE that these really helped with the ED and loss of sensation. You guys should try it too. I hope it helps you as much as it helped me.

nonewcomer2008
06-12-08, 09:01 AM
Shouldn't it be ginseng? Ginko is more for concentration and blood in your real head, isn't it?
But i think ginseng and arginin don't do wonders in this damage case. I'm interested what a urologist can/will say and do.

littlejohn
06-13-08, 11:18 AM
Shouldn't it be ginseng? Ginko is more for concentration and blood in your real head, isn't it?
But i think ginseng and arginin don't do wonders in this damage case. I'm interested what a urologist can/will say and do.

Fairly sure it improves blood circulation everywhere. Health stores just advertise the blood to the brain and the concentration thing more.

nonewcomer2008
06-18-08, 08:26 PM
Ok, i read much about it and also much about tbirdy's ideas and they seem good!
I have already tried 6g Arginine and 750mg American Ginseng for 8 weaks, but no real results. I have had some mental stress also, i work mentally on myself already.
But need some help on my next suplement cure.



I will do it for 7 weaks (Cialis maybe for longer):


- i hope original 5mg Cialis 2 times a weak (shouldn't it be EVERY 36 hours???),

- 3.5g Arginin before bodytraining (fitness),

- 4.5g Creatin before bodytraining (fitness),

- Maybe 1g Arginin after,

- Maca (how much, 2g a day? and when? at morning at evening?),

- 50mg Zink a day (when?),

- 1g Ginseng Panax (at breakfast/morning or 2 times 500mg a day?),

- 180 or 240mg Ginkgo Bilob,

- Glucosamine Chondroitine MSM for joints repair,

- 150mg Magnesium (when?),

- Vitamin-E 270mg RRR-alpha-Tocopherol (at evening),

- 1g to 3g Omega3 (at evening),

- sure some Vitamin-C and maybe some low multivitamins

- and kegels every second day, some 100 fast and then 3x12 slow and holding a little,

- haven't found a supplier for tribulus at my place so i think i won't test tribulus right now, also the above is expensive already,

- cold shower.


Drinking much water, trying to sleep enough. I already eat healthy, train 4 times a weak (1 hour) and do run some times a weak for 15 minutes.



Does this supplement combination cause any health problems? I tried most of them individually already, BUT NOT AT SAME TIME, haven't had Maca and Panax Ginseng before only american ginseng 750mg.
Have tried one time 5mg Cialis and i had strong night erections, no joke! So i hope it won't build up in my system, i will not overdo 5mg because it works good enough for me in no-sex situations. And at that time i have had not Arginine, which should make bloodflow even stronger.
I'm scared about a not stopping erection.



Is it normal that sperm seems yellow on white background (on paper for example)?

nonewcomer2008
06-18-08, 09:31 PM
It seems i can take cialis every 4 or 5 days and keep it in the system every day or will it only work the first day? Hm i was thinking about tuesday and friday and maybe doing the first 2 times in EOD (every other day), to build up. 8mg is to much for me.


http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30863&page=4



Hey 10inchadvantage.

Adding some more info and more science to your experiment.
Obviously it will back up many things u already found out yourself.
Check it out, unfortunatly its in German , but I will try and translate the most important things.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Die tägliche Gabe eines PDE-5-Hemmers (Cialis, Viagra) ist für viele Männer eine neue Behand-lungsmöglichkeit. Davon profitieren besonders Männer mit organischer ED, also mit arteriellen Durch-blutungsstörungen (nach SKIT) (Quelle: Prof. Porst).

Dabei werden täglich 50 mg Viagra zur Nacht eingenommen (Sommer et al, Asian J Androl 2007 Jan.; 9; 134 - 141) oder aber es werden täglich einmal 5 mg oder 10 mg Cialis eingenommen (Porst et al, European Urology 50 [2006] 351-359). Tägliche EinnaHydromaxe von Cialis führt am 5. Tag zu einem konstanten Wirkstoffspiegel, d. h., dass es ab dem 6.Tag nicht mehr zu einer Erhöhung oder Akkumu-lation (Anreicherung im Körper) kommt. Die sog. Akkumulationsrate beträgt 1,6 – 1,7. Das bedeutet, dass eine tägliche EinnaHydromaxe von 10 mg Cialis ab dem 5.Tag einer einmaligen EinnaHydromaxe von 16 – 17 mg entspricht (Quelle: H. Porst; Tadalafil – Therapiestrategien bei ED; ISBN 3-936993-13-0 ; 2004 Aesopus Verlag); die EinnaHydromaxe von 5 mg Cialis entspricht danach einer EinmaleinnaHydromaxe von etwa 8 mg.

Die chronische Gabe von Viagra (Behr-Roussel, Eur. Urol. 2005 (47) 87-91) oder Cialis (Rosano, Eur. Urol. 2005 (47) 214-222) verbessert die Funktion von Endothel- und Gefäßen deutlich. Für Levitra gibt es in der Literatur noch keine Angaben, aber es ist anzuneHydromaxen, dass auch mit diesem Medika-ment vergleichbare Ergebnisse erzielt werden.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The daily intake of a PDE-5 Inhibitor (cilias, viagra) is a new treatment option for many men.
Especially men with organic ED, arterial bloodflowdysfunctions.

The daily intake is 50 mg Viagra before sleep, or daily 5- 10 mg cialis.

The daily intake of cialis leads to a constant concentration (accumulation) level of cialis after the fifth day !!!!!!
After the sixth day there is no accumulation anymore.
The rate of accumulation is 1,6 - 1,7 . That means that a daily intake of 10mg cialis , after 5 days, EQUALS a single dose of 16 - 17mg. (Or for example the intake of 5mg after the fith day equals 8mg)

The daily intake of viagra or cialis improoves the functions of the endothel and vessels SIGNIFICANTLY. For levitra there is no evidence as of yet, but it can be speculated that, with levitra the effects will be the same !!!

--------------------------------------

ad to that from other studies, that it also reverses fibrosis and significantly improoves the arterial bloodinflow permanently !!!!...


ENjoy !!!

MrNilsen
06-18-08, 10:11 PM
hey, I will say that you have to experiment a little to find you dosage and often you need to take the next one.
And of course, as with anything else, stress and mental problems will make your problems worse, so try "chillin" and let the cialis workin'. Good luck

nonewcomer2008
06-19-08, 07:40 AM
Tnx. How do you mean "often take the next one"? You mean the body gets used to 5mg?

I'm hope the combination of natural stimulants like Ginseng and than Cialis wont result in a priapism.

MrNilsen
06-19-08, 11:18 AM
I take cialis every 3rd, 4th or 5th day, it's very difficult for me to say exactly how often, so just experiment. I take 20mg at the time. You could also, take 5mg every day, if you want. The key words here are: experiment, and take the other stuff after you get your cialis dosage and timing right..

nonewcomer2008
06-19-08, 05:30 PM
TNX.

I will start Cialis tomorrow and the other stuff around 1st July. So i have 10 days to feel Cialis alone.

I will do Cialis Friday, Saturday, Monday and than Thursday i think. From that point on only every 3rd to 5th days if it will work right.


Have you everyday great nightwood and morningwoods (from the time you started taking Cialis)? Or only the day you take Cialis? After my first 5mg Cialis test i have had only the first night good nightwood and morningwoods, i have taken it at 13:00h.

dragonbirde
06-21-08, 01:50 PM
Wow, it seems a lot of you guys are going through to what i went myself not long ago. Thank god it worked out for me and I had my ed problem for 2 months before i started on fixing it. I think it happened because i way overworked my penis in my exercises. At first i was planning to see a doctor but i chAnged my mind after reading some articles around in the internet. What i did was exercising a lot, eating a lot of fruits(especially bananas), vegetables, omega3for my nervous system, and finally drinking a lot of Pomegranate juice. i started to see some progress after two weeks and fortunately for me now it's all working ok.

I hope you guys also a find a solution because it's really the worst thing that could happen to a man.

nonewcomer2008
06-22-08, 05:53 AM
I read everywhere you should not mix Nitroc Oxide donors (nitrates) L-arginine with cialis ?:( ??

tbirdy
08-07-08, 09:47 AM
@ no newcomer 2008

You asked me to put an eye on your post , wich I did.

I think you are already being adviced very good, by the people who are suffering from the same problems. Also this mailing group is very good - the guys really did their homeworks and are on the right tracks.

From my point of view , and don't get me wrong I don't won't to discourage anyone your goals can't really be biopsy, or genetic engeneering or any sorts of operations. Your goal should be to recover a smuch as u can naturally and maintain that and above all that get your mind of your problem. Remember even the organically healthiest penis will be out of buisness if the owner worries too much.

From the top of my head , here are the things that I tried, tested and also saw work for others. Some of them I 'm still doing today, but I really don't concern too much and I don't attend Penis Enlargement related Forums too much so my mind is focused on more important things:

(Most of these things I already mentioned in my former posts , and some were mentioned here too) Anyways here goes :


- No Penis Enlargement (but light pumping, more on this later)
- Drink 3 liters of water daily
- Apply hot/cold treatments to your penis as often as u can manage on a daily basis
- Massage your penis , balls , ligaments , pubic area , stomach , lower rib cage , whenever u can find time (while watching TV) Thisway u clean the pathway from heart to penis, remove possible blockages and activate the lymphatic system so it can remove any shit that may be cloggin up your veins arteries or lymph vessels, tissues and so forth
- Use a tens unit , designed for the penis (In german the unit is called "schniedel hoch", as often as adviced by the makers of it.
This will train your penile tissues and arteries and muscel cells incase ur nerves are dislocated. With the tens you just bridge "the gap" of the nerve dislocation and still can workout your penis.
- Take Ginko in high poteny versions from for example docotors best , the prices are crazy low in america, the effect is well documented by thousands of studies Make sure its always : Extra Strength Ginkgo Extract supplies premium quality Ginkgo biloba standardized extract, guaranteed to contain a minimum 24% flavonglycosides and 6% terpene lactones.
Take 120 mg one tablet in the morning and 120 mg in the evening.
You will experience better erections , lower hang , fuller penis , warm hands , good well being all ebcause of strongly improoved bloodcirculations. This Ginko make the hamoglobin more flexible and don't allow the red blood cells to stick together this way they can't clogg up and will pass through even the tiniest arteries to supply cells with blood wich otherwise would remain fucked up.
(Good if you damaged your arteries or have some blockage)
- Take Highest potency "Pomberry ELixier". Forget about every other pomberry product such as juices and pills all of these don't work.
I only know of one supplier worldwide wich is here in Germany
"http://www.drjacobsmedical.de/" wich has the highest quality. A teaspoon of this stuff has the equal antioxidant power of 70 bottles redwine combined. Can u imagine how good this stuff is for your arteries ? Many studies have been made on this stuff , and a huge amount of "prostate cancer" patients use this stuff. Thats how I stumbled across it. This juice stops prostate cancer from further developing the patients die from everything but their cancer when on this stuff. 20 ml is the daily dose needed. Other effects are 30% increases in diameter of even your biggest arteries (stomach aorta, neck arteries) after regular intake of one year. Investigate for yourself.
The price is very high with 37.50€ for one month supply (=one bottle) but there are many "versand apotheke" here wich sell for 20 to 25 €. Or find equal quality in amerika or anyplace u are , I haven't yet.

- Take either Viagra , Or Cialis or Vardenafil on a daily basis. Again its well documented that it permanetly increases bloodflow after 3 month or 6 month of daily intake of either 50mg viagra nigthly or 5- 7 mg cialis daily , vardenafil is too new to have many studies but it will have the same effect.
It trains your penilie tissues , muscle cells , nerves and instantly restores your sexual abilitys and confidence in your sexgame wich is one of the most important things as I mentioned in the beginning of this post.

- Take either 6gramm high grade L-Arginine daily. This is the amount that was found to be effective to help with ED. L-Arginine and its effects are also well documented. So research yourself. The most interesting effect is the L-Arginine combine with either viagra or cialis or vardenfail reverses fibrosis , thats right it reverses scar tissues everywhere in your body.

The problem is. If you would take 6gramms l-arginine and 50 mg viagra at the same time YOU WILL DIE couple of hours later because your blood pressure will drop completely and your heart will race like crazy.

A dose wich I tolerate well is 3 gramms l-arginine spread throughout the day and 50 mg viagra daily.

Doses of l-arginine of less than 3 gramm don't have any ED related or erection related effects. So find your toleratable dose wich reverses fibroses but doesn't kill you.

As you see, l- arginine is uncombinable with cialis daily , because of the long lasting of the cialis and the build up. Sooner or later your heart wil start racing and u will die. So be carefull.

-Pumping ! Light pumping at 5gh after warm up every other day. Is all what is needed to gain if u still want to Penis Enlargement or if you have curvages or a deformed penis, unequal chambers and so forth, or want to train or help with fibrosis reversal. pressure is applied equally on all party while in tube , so its the safest Penis Enlargement. Or penile training.

- HAVE SEX ! Fuck women. Buy whores, date girls , Marry someone who love you for you , no matter how the status of ur dick recovery is. Gain back your sexual confidence as quick as possible. Sex is not just about stiff dick in pussy. This will come back with time, but you can have millions of differents of varieties of fun with a naked female body and yours. Remeber YOUR WORLD , YOUR GAME , YOUR RULES. Women will love that it will make u special , original and stand out. Just don't become unsocial. Be "dreist", I don't know the english word but its the opposite of shy spiced with alpha male behavior, self confidence and sexy arrogance.

- Well some things wich are common sense , wich I see now I forgot are :

Eat right. You are what you eat so is your dick. Mc donalds and fatty bullshit will clogg up all your body with shit. Eat vegitables, fruits and so on as often as you can , rice, pasta...
-High potency Vitamin C - 1000 mg
- High potency Vit B ..all group including B3 , B6 , B12 and so on...



Well thats pretty much it ( I'll add something if i forget).

Seems like alot of stuff , but infact I use almost all of it daily and its managable within minutes once u get the hang of it , how to combine what and when. As you see all of it but the viagra is natural so expect your health and everything overall to improove. Its also everything very cheap just find the right sources in your country and look for quality...

Good luck and take care.

P.S. To all the guys from the mailing group. YOur life hppens NOW not in 10 years when genetic engeneering will be ready to repair penises. If at all.
So don't chase miracles ,don't obsess, don't think about it, win back what is possible , accept the fact that it will never be as it used to be and enjoy what you still have that will be pure HAP-Penis EnlargementNIS , Happyness ^^ for you !!!

tbirdy
08-07-08, 10:01 AM
ok more stuff I forgot.

Don't expect any of this to work , if u smoke cigarettes or weed even rarely or if you drink alcohole regular.

All of these damage your body , and your arteeries in way wich would need weeks of writing to cover up all possible damages and damage locations.

Also. Don't expect good health or good penile health if you sit around in your job or freetime everyday.

Joggin or any kind of running activity is absoultely essential for penile health.
The penile arteries derive from the bigbadass arteries wich feed your legs especially your quadriceps ( upper legs). Noticed how pornstars almost always have nice physique for obvious reasons and strong strong upper legs..guess why..)

The better trained your legs are the better your penile blood supply the better your erection. The more you run , weat and sweat and sweaaat the better the cleaning ability of your lymphatic system, and arteries and veins and all tissues.

- Kegels... well I don't like these and don't think they are needed or usefull anymore because for me they just lead to premature ejaculation wich i never have problems with. Lots of sex will be all the kegel workout u ever need.
- One place where they still make sense if you pump at 5 gh ..hold a kegel for a minute to further imrpoove the even expansion of your tissues and lessen the fluid build up from pumping.

- remove any stress , or things that stress u or pull you down , or people with destrcutive behavior (that brings no fun! ^^) get rid of such company..


k...peace people

rastan9
10-14-08, 05:19 AM
wow, reading through this thread has been a scary experience... I hope all you guys get better. Im now having a careful think about how I proceed with my own Penis Enlargement.

BeBobBox
01-25-09, 05:26 PM
bump... any updates?

mike49
03-14-09, 02:55 AM
anything new? (same problem as everyone else, urologists have been no help, no need to explain it all...)

CJSD
03-15-09, 05:25 PM
I just try and accept that my penis isn't going to be fully normal again. I really wish I wasn't so insecure about this whole penis size issue at the time yeah I am "average" in penis size but so what? Why are us guys so bothered with this. The fact remains that you don't actually need a big penis to hit the g spot or give women orgasms.

I done Penis Enlargement a few times and I damaged my penis from doing some of the exercises there is no doubt about it. I am still convinced that I have a small venous leak because the glands tend to loose blood pretty quickly while the rest of the shaft remains hard and rigid. Sometimes when I get an erection the glands just tend to stay pretty soft unless I keep masturbating then glands do get larger and more shiny. My theory is the damage with the glands was from jelqing perhaps maybe a little too erect. I know though that things could be worse and I am fortunate I didn't injure myself too badly, I don't need surgery or even Viagra to get a hard erection, I do get erections that are hard like before it's just the glands don't get as big as before or stay as engorged.

I think that some of us were just niave and didn't take any of the risks into consideration enough. I realize in life for most things you need to take some risk to get results but when it comes to my cock no damage is worth it. I think Penis Enlargement is like playing with fire and we just got burnt unfortunately but I have little doubt that Penis Enlargement works and clearly has for others.

BeBobBox
06-08-09, 10:41 PM
smoking marijuana temporarily restores my sexual function... some of you guys should try it if you havent. for those who dont know, it enhances your perceptions --food tastes better, music sounds better, ect, and for me... it makes my dick feel a lot more pleasureable. check this out...

http://www.worldarterotica.com/marijuana-aphrodisiac.html

doublelongdaddy
06-08-09, 11:03 PM
smoking marijuana temporarily restores my sexual function... some of you guys should try it if you havent. for those who dont know, it enhances your perceptions --food tastes better, music sounds better, ect, and for me... it makes my dick feel a lot more pleasureable. check this out...

http://www.worldarterotica.com/marijuana-aphrodisiac.html

Hey BBB! Long time no see. I hope all is well. I am a HUGE proponent of Marijuana.

kingofsat
07-20-09, 03:53 AM
1. STOP ALL Penis Enlargementing
2. Give your penis a rice sock/warm compress for 30 minutes a day (I ran mine in hot shower water though). It should be warm enough that your unit radiates heat a few minutes after.
3. Take "Ginkgo Biloba" 120-240mg pills until everything is back to normal. It helps improve circulation.
4. Take Fish Oil pills

I am DEFINITE that these really helped with the ED and loss of sensation. You guys should try it too. I hope it helps you as much as it helped me.

This did nothing for me.

After 8 pages of essays and 5 years, has anyone actually reached a conclusion as to what the problem is ?

REDZULU2003
07-20-09, 08:12 AM
I wouldnt advise anyone use Marijuana as its longterm damage is extensive. Dont want to hijack this thread, but its been mentioned here. Links to a site with info on longterm damage and medical links to the sources at the bottom. (http://www.drug-rehab.com/long-term-marijuana-use.htm)

The fact remains that its your body, do with it what you will but be prepared to face the consequences.

Dr Pepper
11-14-12, 02:05 PM
Any updates?
I have soft glans/cs, my superficial dorsal vein is enlarged (through Penis Enlargement) and when i occlude it manually, my penis is how it used to be..
anyone else? I think i shall have it tied off..

doublelongdaddy
11-14-12, 05:42 PM
Any updates?
I have soft glans/cs, my superficial dorsal vein is enlarged (through Penis Enlargement) and when i occlude it manually, my penis is how it used to be..
anyone else? I think i shall have it tied off..

What do you mean tied off?

houseofr00bees
11-14-12, 07:10 PM
Also, I read about a theory saying that if your smooth muscle isnt big enough to fill the stretched tunica resulting from length exercises then you need to do routines that will give you more girth which you were doing in the beginning, and if your dick is super hard but you aren't getting any length then you need to work that area.

Maybe you are just very susceptible to length growth so even if you do a little, it shows. And maybe its harder for you to gain girth thus you need to work more at it to fill up the stretching you've already accomplished.. Idk, sort of just rambling here. Hope I said something useful.

doublelongdaddy
11-24-12, 04:04 PM
Also, I read about a theory saying that if your smooth muscle isnt big enough to fill the stretched tunica resulting from length exercises then you need to do routines that will give you more girth which you were doing in the beginning, and if your dick is super hard but you aren't getting any length then you need to work that area.

Do you have a link to this? I am interested in reading it.

Dr Pepper
12-18-12, 10:48 PM
What do you mean tied off?


I just posted a thread for approval in the injuries/boobies section. It is about my surgery tomorrow morning. Its a relatively quick simple procedure. It is explained in the thread. Basically they tie off the vein so blood cannot leave through it.