A Closer Look at Depression and PE

[doublelongdaddy]

I started to do 2 new studies since I have some time finally. The first is going to be a closer look at depression and how it affects our PE routines. I myself do not suffer from clinical depression but I have gone through small bouts of depression and during this period my routines suffered tremendously. I want to explore negative attitudes and how we let them dictate our progress. I also want to give some good cognitive information on dealing with this issue. I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts or contributions on this. I decided to start this study because of some of the men I work have these issues and it become very difficult for someone suffering with these afflictions to move forward. Even if they go through the motions there is still a component that is missing. I want to find out what it is and try to offer some good, solid remedies to help in this.

[poonologist]

Hello,just registered on the forums.

I was depressed for about two and a half years or more and never seen a doctor.I pretty much kept to myself for the most part and stayed home alot.During that time i had started to P.E but never followed through with it because of becoming disheartened by not seeing instant gains.I didnt follow the workouts completely though so im sure that had something to do with this.I recently had seen a doctor and he prescribed paxil.He mentioned sexual side effects but the only one i was informed of was just slowed ejaculation(which he also added was something alot of men quest for.lol never had a problem in that area so i didnt care).Anyhow i just as recent as a couple of weeks ago quit taking them because i read about some more side effects and also because of decreased libido.I had began P.E again right around the same time(cant remember exact date).I have been following the beginning routines word for word since 5/30/03 and havent took a real measurement since then or anything.I think the key for me not becoming depressed by results or allowing depression to effect workouts is to measure less often.If i measure and see no results,i would become disheartened.If i measured and seen a gain,even a small one,it would drive me onward and give me that extra motivation.

Just my thoughts :)

[poonologist]

Oops,meant to say been doing P.E now since 4/30/03,not 5/30/03.Sorry about that :D

[C-Guy]

I guess I never understood what depression really was. I thought it was something you just let yourself get into.

I went to the dr. a couple of weeks ago and was told that I had a chemical and hormonal imbalance which were causing very severe depression. The dr. explained that it was nothing I had done to cause this but was probably brought on by stress from the divorce last year. The dr. said it would take approximately 6 months of medication (effexor xr) to get things back to normal. The side effects alone from the meds are enough to drive ya crazy. Luckily the side effects are almost completely gone now.

I guess after all I have read here and elsewhere in the last couple of weeks on depression that I have been lucky. The gains are still coming. Haven't really done a complete workout in about 3 weeks. Yet...I have actually gained an 1/8 inch in flacid stretched and bone pressed erect length in this time. The fatigue from the depression has been awful. Things are looking better now and hopefully in about another week I can do a better workout again.

[REDZULU2003]

I had depression, anxiety, paranoia and suicidal thoughts years back in my early/mid-teens.
I was a MESS.
I am ALOT better now, but I am on medication to this day, not anti-depressants but summut to help me, chemicals in my brain aint right ya see.

I still get negative thoughts now and again, but my PE aint effected by it anymore, except that it can make me lazy....I reckon alot of my de-motivation has been from my moods.

[Godsize]

I tried Paxil once. All it did was give me severe abdominal cramping and the shits. Man, fuck all those pills. I've tried Prozac and almost slit my wrists, tried Celexa(?) and got nothing... there is no escape.

[Synthetic]

How do you know if you have depression? I am sitting here at 7:30AM because last night I felt bad and couldn't really figure out why. College life is stressing the fuck outa me as I have a very hard schedule this semester and I am also a pledge. I also have very deep issues with my girlfriend.

[bigbutnottoo]

I dont know how to answer that. For me, I don't know what its like NOT to have depression, since I have since I was about 12 yrs old.

If you go to college, I suggest taking advantage of their health program if they have one and talking to a psychiatrist or psychologist for an intake or uptake or whatever its called.

[doublelongdaddy]

Originally posted by Synthetic
How do you know if you have depression? I am sitting here at 7:30AM because last night I felt bad and couldn't really figure out why. College life is stressing the fuck outa me as I have a very hard schedule this semester and I am also a pledge. I also have very deep issues with my girlfriend.

Depression is most often associated with four types of symptoms:

Changes in mood: People with depression have either a persistent feeling of sadness, or a reduced feeling of pleasure in activities (hobbies, family activities, etc.) that were once considered enjoyable. There may be a decline in having sexual relations. Sometimes depression is experienced as intense irritability.

Physical symptoms: The most common physical symptoms involve:

Appetite: Reduced appetite, often with weight loss, is often seen. Increased appetite and weight gain may also be associated with depression.

Sleep: The most common sleep difficulty is awakening early in the morning. However, some people experience excessive daytime sleepiness, difficulty falling asleep or frequent awakenings during the night.

Other physical symptoms: That may be present are headache, constipation, and general aches and pains.

Energy level and motivation: Depression often makes people feel profoundly tired, lacking energy and feeling unmotivated. Some people actually experience a physical slowing down, or a feeling of agitation and restlessness.

Changes in thought pattern: People with depression often have negative thoughts. Feelings of helplessness or hopelessness are prominent, as are guilt or pessimism. Self-esteem and self-confidence may suffer since they do not feel good about themselves. Many depressed people complain that they can’t focus their attention, have trouble concentrating or can’t remember things.

Anxiety: The vast majority of people with depression also have accompanying symptoms of anxiety, such as excessive worrying, nervousness, restlessness, panicky feelings or difficulty falling asleep. In fact, these symptoms may be so severe that many people seek help from their physician for anxiety, only to find that they are suffering from depression.

[Hopingbig]

jesus ive basically got every single one of those symptoms

maybe i should get help

[Synthetic]

Does depression just happen or what? I mean I have had a lot of those symptoms for the past month or so I would say.

[REDZULU2003]

well I have and still do feel like shit for 2 weeks now...hardly done a fucking tap of npe/pe >:( I feel far to pissed of and unhappy to do any.

I am really stressed the fuck out at the mo'' with work mainly...but I seem to get into these *bouts* of depression every few months or so.........anyone else here had this before? what the hell is it?
I am on medication...it works has done great but I still get these damn bouts.

[Omul_Paianjen]

Everything around me is fucking stressing and I don`t see even one thing hat is happening to me. I think iI`m gonna go crazy. It`s already beggining. Hopefully I will be better when I reach my aim in PE. Guess I could say that I`m deppressed.

[Hobgoblin]

Hello everyone and greetings to DLD! New member - just registered today.

I think I have been depressed for roughly two years, although I think its important at least in my situation to distinguish between biological depression and situational (cognitive) depression. I work for a consulting firm that does alot of work in the areas of organizational psychology, and we draw alot of data from clinical studies. You guys know how most studies are, especially the softer science ones done in the academic arenas...see one and ill show you two others that contradict it.

Obviously, there is the neurological based depression, caused by an imbalance in the brain's chemistry. I don't have an opinion on this, since I really havent studied it enough myself, but here is what I've gleaned from talking to different people in the field. Quite a few of them claim that the actual occurance rate of true biological imbalances that would bring on mild symptoms and not escalate into something like schizophrenia is very low, especialy when compared to the amount of scrips written for prozac, etc. They say the cause of this is that the true underlying causes for behavior are so deep and complicated, that its easier to medicate then go through the painful and often unsuccessful process of true treatment. If thats true (not saying that it is, just heresay) then I'm not sure whether it is an indictment of the medical profession or not. Is it just being practical or is it them cheating us and taking the easy way out? I think that would be up to the individual patient to decide.

Now, to DLD's suggestion for cognitive solutions (knew I'd get around to it sooner or later). In my work we do alot of psych testing in employees of large companies. The ratio of depression gets higher the younger the subjects are. There's a caveat in there though, being that older generations may be less willing to discuss or be truthful about such things. But taken that people were relatively honest, this seems to be becoming more prelavent with each concurrent generation. The one common denominator seems to be expectations. Each generation (I'm 28) is raised to have higher and higher expectations out of life, and as we get older and the real world starts kicking us, we realize we're not going to be a famous rock star or emperor of the world, and i think we get wrapped up in our disappointment, some of us to the point of paralysis. Poonologist used the best word for it - disenheartened.

A small practical piece of P.E. advice for those of us who suffer either from chemical based or situational depression, to follow the cognitive approach - I dont know whether it will help or not, but its the only way that I was even able to get myself started. I'm beginning this program not to have an 11 inch beast or give DLD a run for his money, but simply to be healthier and have a healthier penis. At least for me, that reduces the expectations, since I think that us Type "A"s are more easily afflicted by disappointment. We expect 100% return for 100% effort, and it crushes us when we dont see results that reflect our sacrifices of time, energy, effort. Basically, in terms of PE., I think if you take the approach that the first step is to get healthy and return the muscular/vascular strength to what it should be, then the gains you could see in that process will be surprising and give you a foundation with which to hope for more.

Keep in mind that I'm a rookie here, and if this post is inappropriate or offbase, please feel free to delete it. Dont want to speak out of turn.

Thanks, and its good to be here.

Hobgoblin

[TennisNut]

You may be a rookie as far as PE goes, but you are very wise nonetheless! Welcome!

[bigbutnottoo]

Originally posted by Hobgoblin
distinguish between biological depression and situational (cognitive) depression.

Of course there is a debate as to whether there is even such a thing as "biological" depression.

I tend to agree with the Dr. Szasz school of opinion on this one ( and this is coming from someone who has "suffered" from depression). Personally, however, I do have some reason to believe some mental "disorders" could in fact be based in actual medical science. If that is the case, they would have to be treated medically.

It is my overwhelming belief, though, that most if not all depressive disorders are not "diseases" and are really just thought disturbances that must be overcome and controlled cognitively.

I thought your post was rather useful overall.

[Sundown]

Depression is most often associated with four types of symptoms:

Changes in mood: People with depression have either a persistent feeling of sadness, or a reduced feeling of pleasure in activities (hobbies, family activities, etc.) that were once considered enjoyable. There may be a decline in having sexual relations. Sometimes depression is experienced as intense irritability.

Physical symptoms: The most common physical symptoms involve:

Appetite: Reduced appetite, often with weight loss, is often seen. Increased appetite and weight gain may also be associated with depression.

Sleep: The most common sleep difficulty is awakening early in the morning. However, some people experience excessive daytime sleepiness, difficulty falling asleep or frequent awakenings during the night.

Other physical symptoms: That may be present are headache, constipation, and general aches and pains.

Energy level and motivation: Depression often makes people feel profoundly tired, lacking energy and feeling unmotivated. Some people actually experience a physical slowing down, or a feeling of agitation and restlessness.

Changes in thought pattern: People with depression often have negative thoughts. Feelings of helplessness or hopelessness are prominent, as are guilt or pessimism. Self-esteem and self-confidence may suffer since they do not feel good about themselves. Many depressed people complain that they can’t focus their attention, have trouble concentrating or can’t remember things.

Anxiety: The vast majority of people with depression also have accompanying symptoms of anxiety, such as excessive worrying, nervousness, restlessness, panicky feelings or difficulty falling asleep. In fact, these symptoms may be so severe that many people seek help from their physician for anxiety, only to find that they are suffering from depression.



Yeah , I pretty much have all of those.

I do however vary in my moods , often when I'm at work (bartender) I can be very positive and seem like the life and soul of a place , I don't know why , probably becasue I don't have time to think about myself. Its something I have trouble with within myself, the worst is the nervousness , I am paranoid often that everyone is looking at me , or people I don't know don't like me etc.

[BeBobBox]

The more time I am by myself, the worse I get. I get into some really periods of depression when I dont hang out with anyone and then at other times I start getting togther with friends and my life is realy great again. Keeps goin up and down. At really bad times when im feelin depressed I dont try that hard when im doing PE. But ya im kinda gettin over the whole feelin depressed thing I try and stay around people as much as possible, and that keeps me feelin good, and stayin on top of my PE.

[cyinisis]

A lot of random thoughts:

I fall into depression off and on. It's actually very easy for me to slip into depression, and I naturally don't care about most things, which leads others to worry about me. I also fall in love quickly and easily. It's a horrible quality, and I've always gotten burned by it, but I never learn my lesson.

I cut my wrists from time to time, but not in an attempt to kill myself, just to release pain, and it works really well. It's sort of a samurai ritual whenever I do it, I have candles and incense and really go all out with it. Kinda saidstic, but oh well.

I once was perscribed an anti-depressant medicine, and took it for 3 weeks. During those three weeks I was a zombie, it was horrible, so I dropped them. I'd rather feel bad then feel nothing at all.

CYiNiSiS

[jonniehiem]

Ive been depressed ever since i was in elementry school. I think it was mostly because i was self concious about my looks and it made me shy towards girls and prbly has an affect on me now with the ladies. i have more confience now but i still get depressed from time to time, well actully all the time. Mostly cuz i cant get this gurl i want, but thats a whole other story. I hate life i wish it were better...i hate my penis..lol...i hate work. In sep. I started taking zoloft, but then i ran out of money so i couldnt afford em anymore. When i got off them..I had the worst side effet...like i was feeling the weirdest dizziness ever. i would feel like im light headed all the time..kinda intense. BUt any who, regardless of how depressed i am...im working on it..tring to get my life better...My penis...gettting that gurl :D...well ima stop writing now...cuz its makin me depressed jus writing about this..lol..l8ter

[doublelongdaddy]

I cut my wrists from time to time, but not in an attempt to kill myself

Cutting Disorder


Copyright 1998, Cheryl Wills, New York 1 News


NY1 spoke with a woman who we'll call "Maria" while she cleaned up her own blood from a stairwell in an East Side apartment building. "Maria" was not attacked or in an accident - she intentionally cut herself with a razor blade. You'll find out why in a moment, but first you need to know that "Maria" suffers from a disorder called "self-mutilation," which is also known as "cutting."


"Maria" says, "People can see [my scars], and I'm too afraid to tell them about a razor blade because I don't think they understand, so I just tell them that they're scratches, and that they're just like a nervous habit."


But it's not just a nervous habit - it's a serious psychological disorder that requires medical attention. "Maria" is now getting help from her psychotherapist, Dr. Steven Levenkron, who is also the author of a new book called "Cutting."


Dr. Levenkron says, "Self-mutilation is cutting yourself, burning yourself, lacerating your skin, attacking your skin in a variety of ways to perceive the pain and to feel the pain involved, because the pain involved and the blood that is seen distracts people from their emotional pain."


And that's why "Maria" has been cutting herself on her arms since January. She explains: "It feels better to watch the blood come out of the cuts, and it's like hoping or wishing that it was like something that's bothering me."


"Maria" was so nervous before our interview started, she pulled out a razor blade and sliced her arms. Dr. Levenkron says, "We are not talking about people with healthy, intact relations to people. We are talking about people that feel profoundly lonely and profoundly separate from the rest of the world."


"Maria," who is a 30-year-old pre-med student, also suffers from an eating disorder - anorexia. When she cuts herself, she says she doesn't feel any pain: "It doesn't hurt at all sometimes when I do it. I don't really remember doing it."


You would think from the wounds on Maria's arms that she's suicidal. She's not. "Maria" says, "It's not even that I want to hurt myself either, it's just that letting out the pain."


Dr. Levenkron explains, "This is not a suicide attempt. It certainly is an expression of disappointment with life - but that's very different from a suicide attempt."


It's estimated that up to two million people - mostly women - are cutters. The disorder usually begins around pubertym and Doctor Levenkron says the psychological symptoms include withdrawl, moodiness and depression. The obvious physical symptoms are many scratches and nicks on their forearms, chest or stomach.


Dr. Levenkron says even though cutters are usually careful not to kill themselves, they sometimes make dangerous mistakes. He told us, "[A razor blade] is, unfortunately, the weapon of choice. It can cut deeply and quickly, cutting arteries and tendons. I have had patients requiring microsurgery after making cuts."


Therapy is not easy for cutters like "Maria." Dr. Levenkron says it could take years to help a patient stop cutting themselves because the disorder is a complex web of low self-esteem and a lack of self-respect.


Dr. Levenkron concludes: "We can't just take away the razor blade and say, 'Now you're all right.' The razor blade is the tip of the iceberg."


But "Maria" says no matter how long it takes, she's going to hang in there so she can learn how to cope with her pain without shedding her blood.

[SLICEDBEEF]

Pain release's addictive (to some people) endorphin's...If I remember correct, your brain release's a pain killer approx. 100 time's more powerful than morphine (with out so much the euphoria). It's suppose to be similar to a jogger's high (I'm not real sure on this), but to "them", it's much more convenient to cut instead of jog. lol Of course, I can do it without cutting or jogging...

I personally think that too many people are on pill's...Yeahhh, they're fun to take every now and then, recreationally...but to be on them everyday because some psychologist say's so, is fuk'd up. We've become a nation where nearly all of are population relie's on the pharmeceutical companies to live a happy life. More people need to learn how to run their own brain instead of making these pharmeceutical compaine's richer. I've recently been learning a mind technology DHE (Design Human Engineering) and I've been learning to precicely control my emotion's, state's of mind, attitude, behavior's, skill's etc. in every area of my life (very cool stuff). I'm about to get to the part where Bandler teach's you how to recreate past drug state's (or create very intense state's) without having to take a drug.

You see, your mind is nothing more than a computer-like instrimute with all the chemical's that you need...and now all you have to do is learn to tap into your unconcious-mind and control, change and even install different "thing's". Since your unconcious mind control's all emotional/response's, state's, behavior's, etc., then if you could tap into that using different method's, you could literally control your whole world...or at least how you experience. He goes in how to install "machine-like" device's (a set of sequential anchor's) so you can install, for example, a compass, alarm clock, an equalizer that can control chemical's/endorphin's (serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, etc.) and pretty much anything you can think of, within reason. Don't get confused and think of these as real physical (like a brick would be) machine's. These are nothing more than a set of sequential anchor's (or metaphorical hallucination) that you voluntarilly hallucinate (for lack of a better term). Their is alot better article's that describe what it is than what I can explain it, so if anyone is intersted in reading more about DHE or NLP, I can give a few link's.

I might have to make this a seperate post, so that I can keep you all up-dated.

[cyinisis]

DLD, great research. I've read a lot about cutting on the net and whatnot. I'm in to psyche and brain function and all that stuff.

Personally, I don't have that disorder, I do it strictly for the pain of cutting. I don't do it very often at all, and when I do, I always have a perfectly sterile scalpel and take precausion not to just cut anywhere. I personally believe there is a difference between ritualistic cutting and nervous cutting. They both are means to the same end, but just like everything else, if not done in moderation, it becomes a problem.

Just a brief look into my mind I guess: I'm into pain and stuff like that. For years I backyard wrestled with all my friends, and we went all out and didn't pull any of our punches. During high school, I had 14 peircings in my face/ears that I did myself with a "hot topic" 3 inch safety pin. I guess I'm just a freak thats into pain :).

On a lighter note, since starting PE a month ago, I have become much more confident, although I haven't really seen any gains, persay, my flacid hang is much more consistent, my dick is really vainy, and looks much more heathy than before I started. I seem to be able to get laid at will, haha, which is a major step from my random sex that I have gotten before. I love to PE, and I'll probably continue doing it till I reach my goal of 8x6 (right now im 6x5 NBPEL) and after that I'll probably continue doing it recreationally, although I don't want any more gains than that.

Again, great job DLD. The fact that you do study pertinent information to PE and are regulary part of the community and always looking for ways to improve YOUR PE are the reasons that I love hanging around this community. Thanks a lot.

CYiNiSiS

[cyinisis]

You see, your mind is nothing more than a computer-like instrimute with all the chemical's that you need...and now all you have to do is learn to tap into your unconcious-mind and control, change and even install different "thing's". Since your unconcious mind control's all emotional/response's, state's, behavior's, etc., then if you could tap into that using different method's, you could literally control your whole world...or at least how you experience. He goes in how to install "machine-like" device's (a set of sequential anchor's) so you can install, for example, a compass, alarm clock, an equalizer that can control chemical's/endorphin's (serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, etc.) and pretty much anything you can think of, within reason. Don't get confused and think of these as real physical (like a brick would be) machine's. These are nothing more than a set of sequential anchor's (or metaphorical hallucination) that you voluntarilly hallucinate (for lack of a better term). Their is alot better article's that describe what it is than what I can explain it, so if anyone is intersted in reading more about DHE or NLP, I can give a few link's.

I might have to make this a seperate post, so that I can keep you all up-dated.

If you're into psychological control and stuff like that, you should look into LUCID DREAMING. It is the process of becoming aware of your dream state, and taking control of your dreams. It is VERY HIGHLY effective for recreation, as well as OVERCOMING FEARS. Not to mention it's fun as hell to be able to do anything you want in a world YOU created.

A year ago I had a horrible fear of losing control, and the way I found this out, ironically, is when a woman handcuffed me to a bed. I started convulsing and almost puking, and I was pulling so hard on the handcuffs, my wrists got lacerated by them. It was a horrible experience, which I overcame by LUCID DREAMING. It is seriously one of the most fun things ever, and all of the sensations are very real. >>>AND<<< it can play MAJOR role in gaining confidence with women, it has helped me out a ton in that area. The mind is incredibly facinating and there is so much yet to learn about how it works.

If anyone is interested in LUCID DREAMING, I will start a new thread here on all of the steps required to learn how to do it.

CYiNiSiS

[SLICEDBEEF]

If anyone is interested in LUCID DREAMING, I will start a new thread here on all of the steps required to learn how to do it.


That would be cool!

Thank's

[doublelongdaddy]

DLD, great research. I've read a lot about cutting on the net and whatnot. I'm in to psyche and brain function and all that stuff.

Personally, I don't have that disorder, I do it strictly for the pain of cutting. I don't do it very often at all, and when I do, I always have a perfectly sterile scalpel and take precausion not to just cut anywhere. I personally believe there is a difference between ritualistic cutting and nervous cutting. They both are means to the same end, but just like everything else, if not done in moderation, it becomes a problem.

Just a brief look into my mind I guess: I'm into pain and stuff like that. For years I backyard wrestled with all my friends, and we went all out and didn't pull any of our punches. During high school, I had 14 peircings in my face/ears that I did myself with a "hot topic" 3 inch safety pin. I guess I'm just a freak thats into pain :).

On a lighter note, since starting PE a month ago, I have become much more confident, although I haven't really seen any gains, persay, my flacid hang is much more consistent, my dick is really vainy, and looks much more heathy than before I started. I seem to be able to get laid at will, haha, which is a major step from my random sex that I have gotten before. I love to PE, and I'll probably continue doing it till I reach my goal of 8x6 (right now im 6x5 NBPEL) and after that I'll probably continue doing it recreationally, although I don't want any more gains than that.

Again, great job DLD. The fact that you do study pertinent information to PE and are regulary part of the community and always looking for ways to improve YOUR PE are the reasons that I love hanging around this community. Thanks a lot.

CYiNiSiS

CYiNiSiS, Thanks for the complements, the main reason I am so involved with the mental aspect of PE is because this is where I needed to make my biggest gains. Thanks for reading the information I posted. I was not trying to diagnose your condition, I was only worried for you and wanted to give a abstract point of view. My hat off to you humbleness.

DLD

[wdis3]

Well,

I can say that I am officially diagnosed with depression, and Social Anxiety Disorder..

I started PE 6/01/04, and everday since i measure.. same with when I started A Weight gain program, I step on the scale everyday.

But even though I see no changes (only a fool would think you could grow so fast)
I say to myself "all in good time" I keep my head up and continue moving forward and doing the exercises.. Becuase really its the only choice I have, becuase if I quit.. Well I've already been down that road and theres no pussy down that way, feel me?

I have been depressed for so long, 4 years.. And I've probably made it worse with all the drugs I took. And, I have did lines with so many people, and smoked with even more.. And I have 0 friends... I'm not to good with females myself.. I am a great-looking guy, im confident in my looks, you would drool if you saw some of the ladies that liked me, but never once did it work out.. why? females dont want insecure, unconfident guys, they find confidence to be an attractive trait. Just lately, I told an Ugly girl that I liked her, why? ugly girls are easy to get, and i really wanted some head.. A great-looking guy like me should hve no problem pulling an ugly chick.. WRONG! Turns out she doesnt like me and I get to stay an 18 year old virgin. she told me the only reason why she wanted to chill is when I got weed, burned by an ugly chick. Whats even worse now I realy like her becuse I cant have her... At first, I felt like shit, maybe I was just really stoned but that same night I bought n 8th of Amnesia haze and smoked it all in one big bowl after another.. Thats the last time I smoked, and it will be until im 160 and 7x6...She may have broke me... but "through every dark night, theres a bright day after that.. So no matter how hard it get, stick your chest out, keep ya head up, and handle it" -2pac


peace

[doublelongdaddy]

wdis3, I can feel you and wanted to give you some help. Here is a little-known secret...being confident starts with acting confident. You see, improving your self-image works in a cycle. You can begin by simply acting more confident and the rest will fall into place.

Here is a very interesting article by a woman on male confidence, the author is unknown, but I think you will find it a good read.

What Do Women Really Want?
Attention Men!

I am now going to tell you something really important about what women want. Specifically, what they want in a man. Be advised that I will be dealing with a monumental but accurate generalization. It's not meant to apply to every female who ever lived. I bow to the variability within and between the sexes. Nonetheless, I think I am on fairly safe ground here. My assertion has the undeniable thud of the obvious.

What women want from men is confidence. Not arrogance, not dominance, not one-upsmanship, not bravado, not macho heroics. Women just love truly confident men.

Confidence is an attitude thing. In particular, male confidence frequently manifests as an I-can-handle-it attitude. This does not mean that feelings are denied. It doesn't imply an absence of doubt, fear, or vulnerability. A delusion of total self sufficiency is not required.

Confidence simply says: "I can deal with it . . . somehow . . ." This attitude doesn't even have to be constant, just generally present in the face of most life challenges.

For hundreds of thousands of years of human development, a confident attitude was much easier for men to gain and display than it is now. There was hardly any choice. Until recently, the demands of physical survival were the primary issue in pair-bonding and confidence-building roles directly related to survival were far more apparent. Everyone could see the skilled hunter, the dedicated farmer and stockman, the courageous protector, the skilled artisan, the accomplished leader, the sage teacher, the men who didn't give up in the face of threatening set-backs. Why hell! There have been times when a women wouldn't even consider a man who couldn't claim to be a good carpenter or a competent dirt mover. These roles, decreed by harsher realities of life than most of us now experience, were obvious advertisements for male virtue.

Unfortunately, the signs indicative of genuine masculine confidence are confusing today and gender roles are a chaotic mess. The external trappings of confidence have been confused with the poor substitute of consumer status symbols. But women instinctually look for clues to a man's level of confidence . . . and test it to the limit . . . but not in the old-fashioned way.

Now for the good news. Since confidence is primarily an attitude toward meeting challenges of all kinds, and there's no shortage of challenges in the world, the essential attitude can still be cultivated and demonstrated. Willingness to face important struggles is still the ultimate key to a woman's respect.

In contemporary times, a man may express this dynamic in many conventional ways. He can show his integrity through competence in his work, education, sports, hobbies, child rearing, or doing home improvements. Actually, we can include here any thing which involves mastering a new learning curve and overcoming ego uncertainties.

Now, if a man really wants to do some crash confidence building, he can try the old-fashioned approach. He can expose himself to bigger risks: jump out of a few airplanes, compete at martial arts, lift weights, climb sheer cliffs with only the strength of his fingertips for security, take on dangerous political controversies, start an unusual new business with more enthusiasm than capital, confront provocative teenagers, or spend days in the wilderness with only his tom-tom for company. It's not the specific activity that matters, what matters is what goes on in the man's head that makes him feel masterful.

Or . . . a man can cut to the bottom line, avoid physically and financially dangerous experiences, and go for the really big risk, the ultimate emotional challenge. He can work directly at becoming more confident with women themselves. That's riskier than cliff climbing, anyway! Although a woman likes to believe a man is willing to deal with a lot of things, what really counts is that he is able to deal with her. A healthy, mature woman resists impassioned commitment to a man who is afraid of her sexuality, her intelligence, or her emotions.

Gentlemen, the Everest you need to climb isn't a mountain, it's a strong female. This means gaining confidence and empathy in approaching and relating to women on many levels, in the face of rejections real or imagined. And since this is the riskiest venture of all, the pay-off is, appropriately, the biggest.

[bigman808]

Thanks for that post, DLD. I have depression as well, but what I find helps is if I slow down my thoughts and journal them. I also go to NA for a drug problem. Today is 130 days clean! *Whoops and hollers for self* I was first on Lexapro, then Effexor XR. They both didn't do shit. Effexor was a lot worse though. The side effects were terrible. I was soo tired all the time, and if I missed two days worth of medication, I felt like I was having a drug withdrawal. It was terrible, and I finally got off of it. I tried suicide twice, survived, obviously and am now free for the most part of my depression. It was a hard time back then, and I almost flunked 9th and 10th grade because of it. My motivation was so low it wasn't even funny. Good luck and persevere to all those that currently have it!