Transdermal test experiment

[quijjiboo]

Well I guess im crazy enough to try the androgel experiment, I know enough about the effects of androgens to give this a shot while being comfortable it is safe.
I will be using something slightly different though, i will be using testosterone base in transdermal consisting of isopropyl alcohol, IPM, oleic acid, DMSO and other penetration enhancers. This transdermal has an estimated absorption rate of 30-40%, much better than androgels 10%. It is also more concentrated, so i have to be careful.
I will be using 50-75mg per day, divided in AM and PM for 30 days. Starting at 6" BP X 5"(mid). Ill be updating this thread every week. Hope all goes well!

[quijjiboo]

Oh ya, I i will also be PE'ing during this time, doing DLD's Girth Buster routine 6 days a week, no stretching for a little while until an injury heals...

[ItsElectric]

Awesome!! Are you gonna be cycling this at all? Also, will you be putting it on every day?

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

ya i am dividing the dose into 3 daily applications, since it absorbs fast...
im gonna go for 30 days.. if i get good results, ill take a month off and go back on again

[quijjiboo]

Weekly update: 6.25" X 5"(mid)
I started stretching again this week, which may account for the slight length increase (though ive never broken 6-6.1)...

Ive been doing the girth work heavy, I was actually expecting a little shrinkage due to dousing it with isopropyl alcohol 3 times per day. i hope to see 1/4" after all is said and done...

[ItsElectric]

Awesome!!! When can we expect a girth measurment? Also, is there a place that I would be able to buy what you're using, or would I have to make it?

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by ItsElectric
Awesome!!! When can we expect a girth measurment? Also, is there a place that I would be able to buy what you're using, or would I have to make it?

-ItsElectric
im not sure what you mean, i measured at 5" after the first week like i said above, you mean when do i expect a gain? most people who have tried it successfully say their gains started after the 2nd week...
for the transdermal, it might be a little tricky :P , you should be able to find the info you need here (everything i know came from that board, its awesome):
www.anabolicminds.com

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by quijjiboo
im not sure what you mean, i measured at 5" after the first week like i said above, you mean when do i expect a gain? most people who have tried it successfully say their gains started after the 2nd week...
for the transdermal, it might be a little tricky :P , you should be able to find the info you need here (everything i know came from that board, its awesome):
www.anabolicminds.com

Oh I'm sorry, I'm an idiot. :P I must've been too lazy to look at your first post too. Haha, I'll check it out!

-ItsElectric

[8 isn't enough]

Originally posted by quijjiboo
im not sure what you mean, i measured at 5" after the first week like i said above, you mean when do i expect a gain? most people who have tried it successfully say their gains started after the 2nd week...
for the transdermal, it might be a little tricky :P , you should be able to find the info you need here (everything i know came from that board, its awesome):
www.anabolicminds.com

It takes a couple of weeks for the transdermal to actually make it through the tunica. Unless, you want to use electrodes on your dick.

8

[quijjiboo]

Weekly update: 6.5" X 5"(mid)

Im having a hard time believing this is a true .5" increase, there was probably some measuring error before but Ill take it LOL. Im starting to get tired of applying this shit 3 times per day hehe.

[rain]

quijjiboo,

Good going with the gains...

I used testorixn for a month last year, was very intense... *g* Really enjoyed it, however was not able to afford to keep buying the stuff.

Then a year later, health problems caught up with me...

Since I am now taking beta-blockers.... It's not for high blood pressure, but to keep the rhythm of my heart proper... My blood pressure was 128 / 84 before I began taking the beta-blockers.

Damn, I'm missing out on all the fun... No more PE pills, no more testorixn... Agh... Part of me wants to stop taking my meds and join on your experiment... Not going to happen... Common sense wins this round...

I pumped a couple times while using testorixn... WOW is all I can say...

Again, keep us posted...

Rain...

[8 isn't enough]

What are you using as the carrier and is it pure Test or a bonded one? Give details!

8

[ItsElectric]

Very interesting......

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by 8 isn't enough
What are you using as the carrier and is it pure Test or a bonded one? Give details!

8
I did give details man! The carrier i used is in the first post (by carrier you mean just the transdermal solution right?), about 20mg/ml, pure test no ester... im not sure what you mean by bonded

[Supra]

Man I triedhat whole transdermal thing before I got my products from http://www.nexostherapeuticals.com/ I did not notice any big results. Mabey I will have to try your program though. Looks interesting. Were are you putting on the andro ge, directly on the penis, scrotum, glands? Are you even using andro gel. Were are you getting this other stuff your talking aobut though?

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by Supra
Man I triedhat whole transdermal thing before I got my products from http://www.nexostherapeuticals.com/ I did not notice any big results. Mabey I will have to try your program though. Looks interesting. Were are you putting on the andro ge, directly on the penis, scrotum, glands? Are you even using andro gel. Were are you getting this other stuff your talking aobut though?
its way better than androgel, but there's no commercial version of it, you would have to make it yourself, go to this site:
www.anabolicminds.com for info on where to find the ingredients, (youll have to find the test yourself)

[Supra]

OK cool so you have to make it. Wait you said it casued shrinkage though. What do you mean? Do you know any for sure gains?

[ItsElectric]

So if I wanted to try this, but am too lazy to make it myself which product do you think would be best for me to use?

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by Supra
OK cool so you have to make it. Wait you said it casued shrinkage though. What do you mean? Do you know any for sure gains?
I was expecting shrinkage due to the alcohol. The shaft feels tight like its dry and I have noticed that the CS is alot smaller, doesnt stick out as much as before I started this stuff.. Hopefully goes back to normal heh
I will be able to give a definite answer about gains Id say one week after im done, because then the hydration level should be back to normal
but im still checking weekly and giving updates for shits and giggles...

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by ItsElectric
So if I wanted to try this, but am too lazy to make it myself which product do you think would be best for me to use?

-ItsElectric
Androgel, or a similar transdermal testosterone product

I doubt any prohormone would work, but if you have to 4AD would be the one, dont bother with anything else

[Supra]

What about this stuff, I heard this was good for this same type of thing.

http://www.1fast400.com/?manufacturers_id=86&products_id=817

[quijjiboo]

Yes thats a decent product and 1fast is a reliable guy

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by Supra
Were are you putting on the andro ge, directly on the penis, scrotum, glands?

What he said. Do I need to protect my balls as well?

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by ItsElectric
What he said. Do I need to protect my balls as well?

-ItsElectric
Just on the penis, it will sting like hell on the balls, you should try to prevent them from touching with something, but sometimes i get lazy once its dry and forget about it

[Supra]

Is it as good as yours you think?

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by Supra
Is it as good as yours you think?
no i dont think so. there have been some studies involving transdermal testosterone for enlargement and treating ED, but nothing for 4AD. And theoretically the testosterone makes alot more sense (DHT even more so, but Im not going there)

[Supra]

Can you give us the exact ingrediants and directions to make this stuff?

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by Supra
Can you give us the exact ingrediants and directions to make this stuff?
Do some homework lol

IPP 40%
IPM 20%
OA 10%
PG 10%
OS 5%
D-lim 5%
DMSO 10%

powder sources: http://forum.anabolicminds.com/showthread.php?t=28

transdermal sources: http://forum.anabolicminds.com/showthread.php?t=29

[ItsElectric]

OK, I'm buying that crap. :D I'll take before measurments and take it for about 3 weeks applying it 2 times a day. Then I'll take a week or two off and will keep you posted on results. I'll be using http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=817&osCsid=491eb54efb076f3153b4d20132d4c7ed with 2 sprays in the morning and 3 sprays at night. This sound ok?

-ItsElectric

[Supra]

Tell me how that stuff works!

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by ItsElectric
OK, I'm buying that crap. :D I'll take before measurments and take it for about 3 weeks applying it 2 times a day. Then I'll take a week or two off and will keep you posted on results. I'll be using http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=817&osCsid=491eb54efb076f3153b4d20132d4c7ed with 2 sprays in the morning and 3 sprays at night. This sound ok?

-ItsElectric
sounds good to me

btw, Weekly Update (a bit late): 6 5/8 BP X 5(mid)
It looks like ive gained girth, but apparently not according to the tape. Getting to 6 3/4 BPL by the end of the cycle would rock.
hitting the blasters and other stretches hard 3X per day.

[ItsElectric]

*still waiting for his to arrive*

-ItsElectric

[ItsElectric]

Got my stuff today, I'll update the progress in my progress thread! Booyah!

-ItsElectric

[Supra]

Hows this test going?

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by Supra
Hows this test going?

So far, so good. In the original thread over at Thunders', Jones says to spray 50mg on it, 2 times a day. Tonight I hopped out of the shower, dried off and then sprayed one and a half sprays on and massaged it in. No problems so far. I did take a measurment right before, but I'm just telling you now that I will not be convinced of this stuff unless I see a 1/4" increase in length or girth by the end of 4 weeks. :)

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by ItsElectric
So far, so good. In the original thread over at Thunders', Jones says to spray 50mg on it, 2 times a day. Tonight I hopped out of the shower, dried off and then sprayed one and a half sprays on and massaged it in. No problems so far. I did take a measurment right before, but I'm just telling you now that I will not be convinced of this stuff unless I see a 1/4" increase in length or girth by the end of 4 weeks. :)

-ItsElectric
well the good thing is that you have the advantage of doing this while young if im not mistaken. It will have better results in younger people.
Note to readers: DONT TAKE THIS AS A RECOMMENDATION hehe

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by quijjiboo
well the good thing is that you have the advantage of doing this while young if im not mistaken. It will have better results in younger people.
Note to readers: DONT TAKE THIS AS A RECOMMENDATION hehe

Haha yes, I'm 18 and turn 19 in April. Hopefully we'll get some good results back with this though!

..but with my "New Year's Resolution" of being consistant with PE, I'm gonna have to think of something.

-ItsElectric

[Gardenier90]

Happy Early B-day!!! Just in case I forget.

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by Gardenier90
Happy Early B-day!!! Just in case I forget.

Haha, thank you very much!

-ItsElectric

[quijjiboo]

final update: 1 week after stopping the applications im at 6.75 BP X5 (mid)
I was pretty much only working length during the time, and it shows. it wasnt a true .75 gain im guessing .25 of that was measuring error, but ill definitely be starting a new cycle in a months time. if i see another .5 after the next cycle, then ill be convinced its from the transdermal

[Gardenier90]

IPP 40%
IPM 20%
OA 10%
PG 10%
OS 5%
D-lim 5%
DMSO 10%

In how big of a batch do you make this?

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by quijjiboo
final update: 1 week after stopping the applications im at 6.75 BP X5 (mid)
I was pretty much only working length during the time, and it shows. it wasnt a true .75 gain im guessing .25 of that was measuring error, but ill definitely be starting a new cycle in a months time. if i see another .5 after the next cycle, then ill be convinced its from the transdermal

How much did you ejaculate in this time? Just curious if this would actually effect any gains?

-ItsElectric

[Supra]

Hey ItsElectric, any changes?

[ItsElectric]

Originally posted by Supra
Hey ItsElectric, any changes?

Actually I measured last night and I may be up to 7.8" :D I'll measure again later just to make sure though.

-ItsElectric

[Supra]

Great news!

[Gardenier90]

Indeed.

[quijjiboo]

Havent been online for a while...

Gardenier90 -> Doesn't really matter how big of a batch, I guess a litre or so would be reasonable

ItsElectric -> How many times? Alot, who knows hehehe. Makes absolutely no difference IMO

[WideAwake]

Why didn't you use a DHT precursor such as 3alpha or 5aa?

Were you afraid of possibly effecting your prostrate (a very valid concern IMO, considering that much of the tissue in the penis leads directly to it...)

Still...I've been thinking of playing around with the one gel designed for local pentration to specific tissue (gel#3 or whatever they are calling it now) and mixing in a combo of 3alpha and 5aa, I think these would potentially be much more effective.

[quijjiboo]

Originally posted by WideAwake
Why didn't you use a DHT precursor such as 3alpha or 5aa?

Were you afraid of possibly effecting your prostrate (a very valid concern IMO, considering that much of the tissue in the penis leads directly to it...)

a) safety, there were several studies done with this kind of treatment and there weren't any reported side effects
b) some people noticed results using testosterone, I havent heard of anybody using 3-alpha or 5aa

[quijjiboo]

I started my second month long cycle today. This one will be a bit lower dose, only applying 2/day.

Right now I stand at 7 BP X 5(mid). I hope to get to 17 X 11 by the end of the month.

[Gardenier90]

You're kidding right?

[quijjiboo]

You're kidding right?
No, I though my month's goal of 20X14 was a little unrealistic so I bumped it down a little. :D

[ItsElectric]

No, I though my month's goal of 20X14 was a little unrealistic so I bumped it down a little. :D
lol

-ItsElectric

[mike2003]

I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhythm. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?

[quijjiboo]

I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhythm. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?

I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

About the hairloss and prostate, bad news is it's still possible. 4AD is androgenic by nature. However you do only have a small amount of conversion to DHT from the testosterone as I shown above.

In the real world, I have talked to many people and spent lots of time on bodybuilding msg boards (guys there sometimes take more than pros) who use 4AD and these side effects are rare.
I don't know anything about the interactions of 4AD and beta-blockers.

[WideAwake]

I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....

[quijjiboo]

Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....

Ya, you would run into problems with the concentration at those doses with just applying to the penis. He was just worried about side effects, so I just wanted to show him it's not really something to worry about even with the assumption of his dose being up to 400mg/day.

I don't know how much to dose the 4AD though, it's never been studied. I would just go with what the guys at Thunders did I guess. They didn't have any problems with it.

The 3-alpha and 5-aa sounds like an awesome idea, but applying the T is as far as I go with PE hehe. At least I have some studies to ease my worries. I'm not saying 4AD is unsafe, I would probably try that if I didn't have T, as their effects and chemical makeup are very similar.

Note: I DONT recommend any of this to anyone! rofl