Supra and Crew's Scientific PE "Hormone and Genetic Research"

[Supra]

In light of all this new research with the IGF, Cialis, Viagra and DHT Cream, and this megalophallus and giant irreversible gains theory. It is time to do a indepth study and testing for this as well. I am going to go for a 2X1 increase in my gains in 2-3 months. To get to 10X7 as fast as possbile through gene and hormone manipulation. I want to unlock all the secrets we can given our resources. All those who are willing to do this may participate. If I am the only one crazy enought to test all these area's then I will do so no problem.

I want to assemble the largest amount of sceintific research known on this thread, and come up with a exact forumla for experemtents. We are all in this together. Anyone is welcome to post about this and contribute to this, but if you are going to post negative things about this, that is not welcome, and I will not allow it. Only postive posts and research are going to be allowed. If you do not wish to participate or have anything to do with this, then simply do not read or respond. This post is going to be at the upmost professional level.

I will be continuing my injections of IGF-1LR3 and Keep taking Cialis and Hit PE Harder than ever. I know there are a few others out there that have bought IGF-1LR3, if you wish to participate, you are more than Welcome. I want to hit this really hard, we need to research Myostatin, Growth Factors, Hormones, Genes, Genetics and so forth.

It will be great if people try different things as well. Not everyone try the exact same thing, casue we will limit ourself. All the research drugs that I use come from here

Scientific Research Materials (http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5333)

Magnum and SWM, Girthius and Sliced Beef will the the top researchers with me on this, and anyone else who wants to participate, please bring all of your info from threads that you have already posted about this, to this thread.

[Supra]

Posted by MagForce

I've tried to understand why megalophallus would result in permanent penile volume increase. But here's a description of it:

Megalophallus is a rare condition where the penis remains enlarged because of priapism. It seems to me that PE replicate somehow the effect of priapism on some penile structures.
What about experimental priapism with intracavernosal injection of PGE1 or massive doses of viagra?
And if Dr Lin's ballooning method was not bullshit after all?
Here's the link to the publication:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...4&dopt=Citation

"Megalophallus as a sequela of priapism in sickle cell anemia: use of blood oxygen level-dependent magnetic resonance imaging.

Kassim AA, Umans H, Nagel RL, Fabry ME.

Department of Medicine (Division of Hematology), Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, New York 10461, USA.

Priapism is a common complication of sickle cell anemia. We report a little known sequela of priapism: painless megalophallus, with significant penile enlargement. The patient had had an intense episode of priapism 9 years previously and his penis remained enlarged. Blood oxygen level-dependent magnetic resonance imaging revealed enlarged, hypoxic corpora cavernosa. Megalophallus probably resulted from permanent loss of elasticity of the tunica albuginea due to severe engorgement during the episode of priapism. This sequela needs to be recognized by physicians because no intervention is necessary and sexual function seems to remain intact."

Now what can we do do recreate the condition of the megalophallus?

The results gotten through the use of a tourniquet in the form of a cable clamp for example has helped me to understand the reasons of the mechanism.
It appears to me that the remarkable gains come from the accumulation of metabolites in the CC's.
The effectiveness of the vascular occlusion in the accumulation of metabolites is demonstrated in these studies:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/2097

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/88/1/61

To me, it's now certain that vascular occlusion is the best approach to reproduce the conditions of the megalophallus.

The implications are massive gains without any injury if done properly.

I would also recommend the use of L-arginine to get a maximum effect.

[Supra]

Posted By MagForce

I strongly believe that the occlusion should be partial so there's minimum blood circulation just like in a priapism.
An other idea is to wear a rubber tourniquet instead of a clamp and try to maintain the erection for 1 hour or more. It won't work without cialis, arginine and viagra. The disck should be engorged at its fullest but should never be numb.
1 hour = 1mm gain (more in thickness than lengh)
less than 1 hour = basically zero gain.

additional DHT cream rubbing should help

The problem with clamps is that they can't be kept in place for long enough to get the metabolites buildup.
Remember, this is not about mechanical extension but about metabolites buildups.

[Supra]

Posted By Mag Force

Supra, what about "Scientific PE"?

Anyway, here's a very important additional research info.
The penile elasticity in under the control of PGE1 (type 1 prostaglandin). Without proper amount of intrapenile PGE level you can get a goos erection and worse you can damage your penis when PEing. Haven' t you notice sometimes how the penis doesn't seem to expand the way we want? These is becasue PGE1 is not present is good concentration.
There're 2 approaches to increase PGE1.
1) taking borage oil along with fish oil 3g/d each.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12499320&dopt=Abstract
PGE1 is derived from dihomo-gamalinolenic acid.
2) the froce brute approach (supra's): intracavernosal injection of PGE1 (caverjet)
http://rxusa.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?Male

This is not risky at all and should produce in conjunction with the rest incredible results.

Supra, it's very important than all elements are in the equation otherwise, results could be dissapointing. Equation:

Massive gains = IGF1r3 + DHT cream + PGE1 + ciailis + L-arginine + partial vascular occlusion

[Supra]

Posted by MagForce

Read my suggested protocol:
http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5748

[stillwantmore]

I really think an extended "shock routine" using a cable clamp and viagra over the course of a weekend could do something similar. I havent had a day free to myself in a while though or I would try this. In other words, doing something like:

8 a.m. Take Viagra
8:30 a.m. viagra is in system, begin first 30 minute clamp session. Keeping clamp on the entire 30 minutes while using stimulation and kegels when needed to keep erection at above normal engorgement. Break after 30 minutes and massage the skin that was under the clamp. After 10 minutes or so, repeat 30 minute clamp session. Ideally, this would be done for as many 30 minute sets throughout the day as possible.

[Supra]

Posted By MagForce

Topical application of papaverine gel produce engorgement.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8579329&dopt=Abstract

Intracavernosal phentolamine can aslo be used
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/SexHlth/Phento.html

Intraurethral Drugs, Intraurethral pellets (Muse)
Muse therapy comes in the dosages of 125, 250, 500, and 1,000 mcg.
A small toothpick-like applicator holds the 3 mm pellet which is placed into the urethra quite easily and painlessly. Massage of the penis within five to ten minutes causes its erectile effect. 90 percent of the drug is hydrolyzed in the urethra, and only approximately 10 percent get absorbed into the spongy rods of the penis as prostaglandin.

Research:
Creams including nitroglycerin and prostaglandin are also in investigational trials. The use of genetic therapy in which nitric oxide-producing enzymes are genetically infected through virus transfer have been experimented in animal studies.

Brands:
Prostaglandin E-1 (Caverject, Edex), papaverine and Regitine, Trimix (papaverine)

[Supra]

Posted By MagForce

PE without pharmacological support is a bit like bodybuilding with gear. Some people can achieve great results, but most won't. If you want to look freaking huge, you need a little pharmacological assistance along with PE.

Supra, based on the analogy, I suggest 3 weeks cycles.
IGF1, DHT, PGE1, viagra, cialis, Levitra, L-arginine, papaverine, phentolamine, nitroglycerin (don't rob a bank!) and 2 weeks break with only PE begining by a 3 days strategic deconditioning.

[stillwantmore]

I disagree that a clamp cannot be worn long enough. It can be. It takes a little tinkering for the first time user, but you can learn the proper amount of wrap and clamp tightness to allow the blood flow to be slowed enough to keep the full, beyond erect engorgement and keep new blood coming in.....in other words not a total cut off of outflow which would lead to tissue death. It can be done. I would not advise it daily though. As the bruising for me anyway is pretty bad around the clamp area. I would like to wager though, that perhaps a couple one hour sessions could be done a night or day ...whatever you are able to do with your schedule....a couple times a week. I'm going to try this out starting tonight.

On the DHT. Sure it may not be the main leading cause of prostate enlargement/cancer...at least not directly, but it is a leading cause for male pattern baldness especially if you are genetically predisposed to it (family history on your mom's side....mothers pass on the genetic traits to their sons)...I'd rather not lose anymore hair than I am already fighting to restore with propecia. So, I'll be steering clear of directly messing with my male hormones.

[Supra]

IGF and HGH will regrow lost hair and restore its color

[stillwantmore]

Maybe when I'm rolling in the benjamins like you buddy ;)

[Supra]

Yum, Viagra!

[magnumforce]

About DHT and hair loss, we still know very little. When a bodybuilder inject himself with testosterone, he loses hair pretty fast. So now, why do teenagers why raging hormones don't lose their hair? Supra has found the solution: high level of HGH and IGF!
That said, there're a lot of DHT receptors in the penis and DHT is essential for growing. IGF might well increase their number.

[Supra]

Ok lets get this going, I want to start this test, what is PGE1, papaverine, phentolamine

[stillwantmore]

Teenagers with "raging hormones" dont usually lose their hair because their body is going through PUBERTY!! There's more going on in their bodies than a few guys making random speculations .....none of whom have any medical knowledge/education/background....can fully understand.

[magnumforce]

Prostaglandin E1 has the following functions:
Maintains ductus arteriosus patency in the newborn as a result of its general vasodilatory effect
inhibits platelet aggregation
gastric effects:
increases cellular resistance to acid
increased mucous secretion
decreased acid secretion
increases uterine contraction
gastrointestinal tract: increases contraction and secretion
negative inotropy on heart
hypothalamic pyretic

Phentolamine:
Alpha blocker
Given by injection, it causes blood vessels to expand (vasodilator), thereby increasing blood flow
Prevention of dermal necrosis and sloughing due to IV infiltration of dopamine or norepinephrine
Brand Name: Vasomax , Regitine , Z-Max

Papaverine:
Used to improve blood flow in patients with circulation problems
Papaverine relaxes the walls of the blood vessels
http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00185515601&trx=1Z5006
can be injected too

[magnumforce]

Stillwantmore,

Interestingly enough, in France a new treatment for prostate cancer and impotence uses a topical DHT gel.

The Evidence:

Proponents of the high testosterone link suggest that high testosterone levels are the cause of prostate cancer, but there is virtually no scientific evidence to back up this statement and much evidence to contradict it.

They also suggest that because low testosterone levels are successful in treating prostate cancer, all men at risk showed have their testosterone levels chemically lowered. The reason this would work is that when you completely take away testosterone you cause the prostate to shrink and shrivel away. Well, that may protect against prostate illness but it is like biting off your nose to spite your face. You may protect against prostate disorders but you lose all of the other powerful health benefits that testosterone. This is analagous to removing a woman’s breast before it is diseased so it can not become diseased. And we are entering the 21sst century.

Over the past few years, convincing research is finally being published that confirms the results seen by so many physicians in clinical practice. This research now suggests that low, not high testosterone levels are associated with increased prostate cancer rates. This makes physiological sense since testosterone levels are responsible for the cellular health of the prostate. (Morgentaler A., Et al. "occult prostate cancer in men with low testosterone levels." Journal of the American Medical Association, 1995; 276(23)

[Supra]

We need to put a test up and together of the drugs, and everything so I can start this

[magnumforce]

Get the products first. Then try experimenting with them. It's impossible so far to suggest a protocol.

[magnumforce]

Also, consider supplementing with bromelain to prevent scar tissues.

[Supra]

Massive gains = IGF1r3 + DHT cream + PGE1 + ciailis + L-arginine + partial vascular occlusion


I am going to do this, I need that email for the guy, with the DHT Cream, Were di I inject the PGE1? How much L-arginine and what is partial vascular occlusion?

[magnumforce]

You should know that the pharmacological megalophallus is more likely going to provide you extra-girth. I believe that it'll result in a 9x8 dick instead of a 10x7. Would that be fine too?

[Supra]

Why not 10X8?

[magnumforce]

The partial vascular occlusion will be gotten with the use of 1 or more cockrings. A clamp with the proper adjustement should be even better because of the larger pressure surface.
Argine 2x5g daily
PGE1 is injected intracavernously. Kits are widely available.

[magnumforce]

The lenght doesn't come easily from CC expansion.

[Supra]

Hey check your pm's

[magnumforce]

Supra, get in touch with these people
http://www.als.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34

[Supra]

It wont let me register under any user name i choose!! The site looks awesome!!

[magnumforce]

Supra,
You get acne from IGF-1 simply because it stimulates your balls which start to produce more testosterone. They should grow a little bit.
It seems that 20mcg is enough for systemic results.

[Supra]

Off this week of IGF-1

Results and changes still are in effect
Lean Muscle Mass Up
Fat loss up
Erections up
Scars are regerating and healing more
Cuts, brusies and other things heal much faster

[Girthius]

So what kind of engorgement for the Tunica, would cause it to loss it's elasticity?It would seem that it would have to be a constant pressure, for it to totally stress the tunica, until it failed! Also once it did fail, then basically you have no barrier, to keep your penis at a certain length. I would think that once the tunica has lost it's elasticity, then every time you get an erection, this just keeps pushing, and pushing the penis outward! With nothing to hold it back, the shear weight of it, would act like a hanging weight, and would help pull on the ligs as well. Their must be a point in which a penis reaches a certain flaccid size, that it in turn acts like a weight pulling the ligs.

It would seem that men that suffer with sickle cell, end up having enormous specimens, due to the frequency of their erections, most of which are very painful, due to the length of time that the erection is present. I think that by having an erection, for a couple hours or more, and being able to trap the desired chemicals within the penis,would relax the smooth muscles, which would help to stress the tunica, which would equal growth. Another thing is that we have the clamps, and other devices that can put allot more pressure on the tunica, then by natural means. This is only a small part of it, but if we can also use IGF, Cialis etc., then there could, and should be some phenomenal growth for anyone, that is willing to give these methods a try.

[Supra]

So basically if we can induce a state of sickle cell from a erection that lasts for up to 2 hours a day, everyday, we can break past this tunica barrier, in doing so, creating a no barrier for growth, giving us the optimal size that we desire?

[Girthius]

So how do we last 2 hours a day? Is this consecutive or spread out? Does this need to be implemented with IGF or HGH? To mimic what goes own with sickle cell, you will have to have frequent erections, erections that may last more then 2 hours. I think that after a while the tunica would fail, if you did have forced erections 2 hrs a day! However it may take longer to achieve the desired results! When someone with sickle cell experiences an erection, it may last 1 hr one day, but the next day it may be 5 hrs!! Sure the 1 hr will expand the penis some what, but the 5 hrs will expand it more, and also make the tunica fail, if it happens enough. So we need to figure out what will be a good starting time, so as to help make the tunica fail in strength. 2 hrs a day sounds good

[Supra]

I will be using the IGF for sure!

[magnumforce]

IGF along with DHT and PGE1 will ensure than no harm is done to the tunica.

Pharmacological PE is to traditional PE what assisted bodybuilding is to natural bodybuilding.

We are about to bring new hopes to people with small dicks. I strongly believe that 9x7 will become quite common in a few years from now.

[magnumforce]

Injecting the head with IGF-1 may be a good idea too as it's related to the CS and not CC.
It might be the way to go to produce a well balanced enormous dick.

[stillwantmore]

IGF along with DHT and PGE1 will ensure than no harm is done to the tunica.

Pharmacological PE is to traditional PE what assisted bodybuilding is to natural bodybuilding.

We are about to bring new hopes to people with small dicks. I strongly believe that 9x7 will become quite common in a few years from now.

LOL, Ok I just have to comment here.

All I've seen so far is speculation by this guy. No medically documented proof that this stuff will in fact cause what we're looking for....affordably. ALSO, is SUPRA the guinea pig here or is this magnum force guy or anyone else taking part in the pin cushion experimenting??? ?:(

I dont like the direction this looks like it's starting to take. Like: mag forcee is doing all the digging around and speculating and Supra is the only one actually taking any of the risks with his dick???

[magnumforce]

Liste, do you still want more? Then take part in the experiement! Just kidding.
You know, Supra is highly motivated and someone has to test the hypothesis for science and PE sake.
I'm very aware of the risks involved and I constantly PM Supra to inform him about the risks.
I was personally against the idea of intracavernosal and glans IGF-1 injections because of the bacteriostatic water and other adjuvents the lab grade long IGF. I'm still telling him to chose the peritoneal route.
As for intracavernosal injections of PGE1, it's not a risky technique. It's FDA approved. The DHT gel penile application as been tested with great success. It's been well documented.
I believe that stretching agressively a dick and hanging tons is much more risky than the scientific approach. Here, it's about overcompsensation and not horrible mechanical stress.
You know, Supra is so determined to get his 10x8 dick that he would be ready to do crazy things resulting in serious injuries. I'm here to give him some relatively sure ideas that are scientifically backed up.

[philadelph]

If you can get the DHT in a localized site specific gel, then the systemic uptake to the receptors in the scalp should not be much of a problem I would presume.

[Girthius]

As for any other lab rats, I am willing, and have been trying to find away to get the needed stuff into the UK where I live!! If the customs wasn't so strict here, I would have already been experimenting along with Supra by now! As it is, I am unsure if I will be able to, until I take the chance, and order! If it does get seized by customs here, I will not only loss my money, but also possibly be fined, and perhaps have my home raided and searched.

[stillwantmore]

I wasnt taking stabs at anyone man. Just making an obserbation that Supra seemed to be the only 'lab rat' so far. I know he's a little more nuts than most of us..lol. I wish him the best and hope he doesnt mess his dick up in the process.

By the way, I did a total of 2 hours of clamp work last night at max engorgement, and I got great workout and pump! My dick is still pumped from last night as I type this.

[Girthius]

No offense taken SWM! I worry about ole Supra as well! I feel that he shouldn't be the only lab rat, hence me throwing my hat into the ring! I am glad that you show concern, as this side of PE is very unpredictable! But what are we to do? The scientific community doesn't see it as an important quest, which I guess that would be a fair outlook by them as they have more important things to research(cancer, aids, etc.) So I guess it's up to us, the young/ and old Frankensteins of the PE world. We do need to have some guide lines on "what if this happens, what should we do in this situation" By coming up with some basic safety tips, we may be able to save our cocks, if something went terribly wrong! What you think?

[stillwantmore]

Agreed. Fortunately, I've yet to do anything to my penis that could require a trip to the emergency room.

[doublelongdaddy]

Subscribing

[Supra]

On A second Not, any more developements, I am also going to add and start injecting Kynoslen because it causing a huge increase in C AMP in the blood.

[magnumforce]

Supra,
PGE1 activates adenylyl cyclase, thereby generating cyclic-AMP.

[magnumforce]

Papaverine is a nonspecific phosphodiesterase inhibitor that increases cyclic AMP.
Intracavernosal injection of B12 is risky I think.

[Supra]

I need to kick this off gimmie a plan

[magnumforce]

Get all the products first.

[Supra]

Can you list all one ones we finally landed on? I am not going to take cialis and viagra, just cialis

[Zol]

I am in my mind becoming more and more certain that I will be trying IGF1-lr3 in the summer when I do my next steroid cycle. I body build and consider this to be the next step for me. I have been sitting on the fence for a while regarding GH & IGF, but the theoretical potential for PE benefits has swung it for me. I will make sure that I properly document everything for people to see. I am waiting at this time to see if I can get hold of some from within the UK as it does not travel very well, being as delicate as it is. If not then I will get mine from the source I know of in the US. I may not have a choice.

BTW Supra, how is your cycle coming along? You cant have that much longer to run of 1mg. Im very intersted in you final results for this.

[randolf]

Can you list all one ones we finally landed on? I am not going to take cialis and viagra, just cialis


You guys have probably already thought of this. But here goes. Btw I was the one who posted the megalophallus threads from thunders to here. As they weren't talking about them, and I knew you guys would love em:).

Ok when you inject things into the penis I'm thinking doing it when you are fully erect, or at least have the cock ring on. So you are sitting there with a massive boner from cialis, and a cock ring, and whatever else.

Then you inject that stuff like proganaligin, then stuff that lets you expand more. And that if your body isn't producing enough you can hurt yourself PEing.

Then you inject whatever other shit you can. You are doing this in effect. Or the goal is: Stress yourself out even more then a sickle cell guy, but for a shorter period of time maybe. Now admittedly the sickle cell guys say they have painful erections. This shows to me that the penis can take a massive licking and keep on ticking:). And actualy manage to grow there as well.

This is surely the reason why we see the GIGANTic cocks on some african americans. Also I believe it just expands the penis in all direction including out. So your cock would likely stay somewhat proportional, eventualy when you were stressing your ligs to much it might go more for girth.

Also if they are erect that long and its painful maybe really long working out is better. I mean I tried more infrequent working out and it didn't seem to work too well.

Now I'm working out 2 hours and 40 minutes a day, 5 days a week. I've been doing it 9 days and I seem to have a lot stronger erections already. We'll see in a couple months of doing this where I am. I've changed my thinking too and you guys might want to. I'm going for .125 girth in two months. That is .75 girth a year though.

Your goal of 2x1 in 3 months sounds too much to me. It is like setting up for disappointment I find. Even .5 x .25 would be incredible for you in 3 months IMO. Then if you get above that from all of your thinking and experimenting you can be really happy.

[randolf]

Why not 10X8?


haha sweet bro your going for 10x8 now? That is my longterm goal too. I am going to be using cialis or V as soon as I get cash. And can help experiment with that. Also with the elastics or clamps with V.

If that prostagalin stuff that helps you expand is cheap I will load up on that too. I don't think I could inject in my penis but I could definately put it in my urethra.

[magnumforce]

randolf, did you know I'm the guy who wrote the original article at thunders?
Supra, should I repost it? And where?
Supra, you need to get:
Cialis, IGF1, PGE1, DHT gel. 1 pound of L-arginine
If you want to edge a lot, get some Dostinex (anti-prolactin), parlodel...
Papaverin can be also added if you can't stay steel hard for 2 hours with the previous stack.

[Supra]

Its cool randolf, I have never in my life gotten dissapointed by failure, actually it makes me happier knowing that I tried and I successufully failed. Failure is acceptable in my book.

[randolf]

randolf, did you know I'm the guy who wrote the original article at thunders?
Supra, should I repost it? And where?
Supra, you need to get:
Cialis, IGF1, PGE1, DHT gel. 1 pound of L-arginine
If you want to edge a lot, get some Dostinex (anti-prolactin), parlodel...
Papaverin can be also added if you can't stay steel hard for 2 hours with the previous stack.

AHH I didn't realize you were! That was an EXCELLENT FIND BRO!:)

I tried to keep it going at thunders, and when it sort of died down, I brought it over to here, with giving full credit to you btw:).


I think dostinex is going to be a big factor. What is Papaverin?

[randolf]

Its cool randolf, I have never in my life gotten dissapointed by failure, actually it makes me happier knowing that I tried and I successufully failed. Failure is acceptable in my book.

ahh kewl. For me I get dissapointed by failure, so I have to make more likely goals for me.

[Girthius]

Has anyone tried the Velvet Deer Antler?

[magnumforce]

Injecting Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor in the dick is another option.

[magnumforce]

I've started experimenting my theories on rabbits at the lab: experimental megalophallus.
I'll let you informed about the results.

[philadelph]

Awesome!

[PaloMalo]

This thread is the bomb!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck Supra...

[randolf]

I've started experimenting my theories on rabbits at the lab: experimental megalophallus.
I'll let you informed about the results.

You serious? Do you work at a medical research company? And are you experimenting with adult rabbits?

[magnumforce]

Yes, Randolf, I work in a univerdity lab, mostly on rabbits.

[Supra]

What is the guy's email that has the DHT cream?

[magnumforce]

Early results: rabbits aren't yet dead!

[magnumforce]

Buy 1 g of DHT and make your own transdermal cream.

[Supra]

How do I buy it?

[philadelph]

I am not sure about the DHT, but for the cream, you need to get Gel # 3 from avant labs. It is localized delivery. If you cant get the DHT, then I would get some 3-Alpha. (converts)

[magnumforce]

http://www.bluerunners.ebigchina.com
http://www.steroidchem.com/
http://www.derrison.com/

[Supra]

http://www.bluerunners.ebigchina.com
http://www.steroidchem.com/
http://www.derrison.com/


none of those links work

[Girthius]

I'm looking into getting some DHT cream, is the VIP cream the same thing? Any links would be helpful.

[gorillaunit]

awesome thread

[magnumforce]

Monday morning: rabbits still alive. Seem pretty horny and are eating like pigs.
By the way, I'm not going to jelq my boys, ok. Their PE program simply consists of fucking sexy female rabbits as much as they want.

[Dario]

I am not sure about the DHT, but for the cream, you need to get Gel # 3 from avant labs. It is localized delivery. If you cant get the DHT, then I would get some 3-Alpha. (converts)
What is Gel#3 supposed to do?

Here are the ingredients:

Isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, octyl salicylate, triglyceride complex, water, d-limonene, carbomer

[philadelph]

What is Gel#3 supposed to do?

Here are the ingredients:

Isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, octyl salicylate, triglyceride complex, water, d-limonene, carbomer


Well its the lotion that avant labs and others use on the localized hormone delivery products. It is supposed to have very little systemic uptake of the hormone you put in it. It delivers whatever you put in it to the area you apply it. Have you heard of a product called "Sytenhance"?

It's also what I have heard people using for a DHT cream for the penis.

[Supra]

I need that stuff

[philadelph]

I don't think those links that magnumforce gave would sell small quantities to us, and it wouldn't be legal.(would it?)

[Supra]

Here is a something Girthius gave me

http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case9806.htm

[Girthius]

Here is a link that I found, relating to balooning, DHT, and it's effects on penile growthhttp://www.actionlove.com/cases/case9806.htm

Also found this drug which blocks the DHT from the prostrate, and hair folicles. It looks to be better then propecia! The main concern is that if you were using a DHT cream, and also using the drug Avodart(which blocks DHT from the prostrate and hair) would the DHT just be blocked from the Prostrate, and the hair, or would this take place throughout the body? Remember the DHT cream is applied to the penis, so perhaps most of the DHT that will be mostly in the penis, will not be effected, it's just the small amount that escapes back into the body that will be blocked, I HOPE!!!!! Will that make a difference?
Here's the link to Avodart:http://www.stophairlossnow.com/Avodart.htm

Another item that I have found is the Velvet deer antler, this could also be used possibly. It is used by Russian athletes to repair their muscles after intense workouts. It's basically a natural way to get growth harmones! Here is a link as well to this site.http://www.lef.org/magazine/articles/velvet.htm

Any input from Supra, Magnum, randolf, slicedbeef and others would be much appreciated!Also it would be great if we could get some info on the DHT cream, and where we can buy it!! Thanks

[Supra]

That is great man!! Were is Magnum!!! I need this DHTstuff bad!!! Were are you!!

[Supra]

From Girthius

""In order to gain like an 1" in a month, you must exercise your penis, take a growth harmone, edge, baloon, supra slamers, etc. Take cailis, and apply the DHT cream! Once errect clamp off, and let the DHT remain in the penis while errect, let it do it's job of growing new cells! And to prevent the prostrate, and hair being damaged, take avodart."

Hell ya!! I am going to do this!! I need that fucking cream!!

[Girthius]

I believe that in order to gain like an 1" in a month, you must put your body into a state known as "Reverse Penile Engineering"! You must fool your body into thinking it is going through puberty! To accomplish this you need to take a growth hormone, stock up on cailis or generic viagra, get some DHT cream, and some Avodart, or Propecia. All of this drugs should go along side a strong workout program for the penis! In undertaking this routine of quick growth, you will need to already be on some sort of growth hormone.I think that the main growth will come from taking the Cailis, then applying the DHT cream to the penis! After about 30 minutes, both drugs should be in the system, so as to start workouts! Workouts should include edging, supra slammers, ballooning, and most if not all types of girth work! The idea is to get fully erect, for 1-2-3 hours! The DHT cream will supply the much needed DHT in the penis during these workouts! This is the key ingredient that causes growth in the penis, when we go through puberty! Once erect you could clamp off, and let the DHT remain in the penis while erect, let it do it's job of growing new cells! Now this is the tricky part! We know that DHT promotes growth in the genital region, but it also enlarges the prostrate gland, and is a cause of male pattern baldness! To prevent this from happening, you should take Avodart, Propecia, etc.I am unsure about taking the Avodart, Propecia etc, to counter the effects of DHT on the prostrate, and hair, as it may also effect the DHT in the penis! So we need to find out if this is the case.If the penis is not effected by Avodart or Propecia, then there is no reason why anyone could not grow!! With the DHT, IGF, or other growth hormones, cailis, a good routine of stretching and girth work, a good diet, physical exercise, supplements, and good mental health, how can we loose, we should only be able to gain, and I mean gain allot!!

[scrumscab]

So how do we find out if Avodart and Propecia will negate the effects of DHT in the penis?

[Girthius]

Well I have been thinking abit about the effects on the DHT, using Avodart or Propecia! Really the only way to know for sure is to get an expert opinion, or to experiment with it. I would love to hear from Magnum F. about this, but on the other hand, I will be buying some DHT cream, and some Avodart, and conduct my own experiments. It is possible that when you start taking the Avodart or Propecia, and it has been in your system for a couple weeks, it may vary well block the DHT that is needed for growth in the penis. I cant see how it would be localized only to the prostrate and hair! But in saying that I am willing to give it a try! I'm hoping that even though my body will be saturated with Avodart, so as to protect the prostrate, and hair against DHT, when I apply the DHT cream to my penis, it may such a concentrated amount, that it may override any blocks that may be in the penis area! Remember the key to this is to apply the cream to the penis, then get fully erect, and cut off most of your blood supply to the penis, so as to work it with different exercises. Once the exercises are done, then the DHT will escape back into the body, in which the prostrate and hair will be protected! Also, some DHT will escape into the body during the workout, but this is inevitable.

[magnumforce]

Don't take any systemic 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, it'll negate the effects of DHT. DHT is the penile hormone, remember it.
Take saw palmetto for the prostate and topical drug for the scalp.

[magnumforce]

Do not forget PGE1 in the equation.

[Girthius]

So no Propecia, or avodart? At the present I am taken saw palmetto(tablets), and also I apply saw palmetto extract oil/olive oil to my scalp. Is regaine ok?

So this is what should be taken:
1. DHT cream
2. Saw Palmetto pills and or oil for the scalp
3. PGE1
4. And a growth harmone such as IGF or HGH, or velvet deer antler

[Girthius]

I know that the best results for this will be when the DHT cream is used in conjunction with cailis or generic viagra, during erect work, but what effects will you get, if you use the cream, like when you are hanging, or using a pump, or what if you apply the cream, and then put on your ROP, before you go to work or bed? Would this have an effect? I think that the pump may have potential, and possibly the ROP. Not sure about hanging??? These are areas that can be experimented on.

[Girthius]

I also think that if the DHT helps to make the cells in the penis to multiply, and this takes place during an intense erection(1-3 hours) I feel that to fully capitalize on the DHT making the cells multiply, some intense tunica exercise are needed! They need to be extreme enough, so as to break down the tunica! By breaking down the tunica, you would be breaking down a big barrier, that controls alot of gaining potential! The tunica should be vigorously worked after the application of the DHT cream, as the DHT makes all the inner workings of the penis pliable, and puts it into a growth mode.I also think that all exercise should continue, this includes hanging, manual stretches, girth work, jelqing etc. This is where the IGF/HGH etc comes into play. When you are not undergoing a DHT workout, or stretching routine etc, the Growth hormones will be ineffect rebuilding all the tissue in the penis that was broke down, hopefully regrowing more cells for added growth. One more important thing is to have an ADS system in place during none exercise times, so as to keep the penis in an outward positive motion, and to promote growth.

[philadelph]

Don't take any systemic 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, it'll negate the effects of DHT. DHT is the penile hormone, remember it.
Take saw palmetto for the prostate and topical drug for the scalp.


I am not so sure that I buy this. Drugs like propecia and proscar are as you said "5-alpha reductase inhibitors". My understanding of these drugs is that they stop testosterone from being reduced into the dreaded DHT. Since you are applying straight DHT, not testosterone, these inhibitors will have no effect.

Propecia and proscar will only help your scalp if you are on a cycle of testosterone. When taking DHT or DHT-derived steroids, the only way to save your scalp is localized anti-dht creams like spriro. Propecia will not help.

[Dario]

I am not so sure that I buy this. Drugs like propecia and proscar are as you said "5-alpha reductase inhibitors". My understanding of these drugs is that they stop testosterone from being reduced into the dreaded DHT. Since you are applying straight DHT, not testosterone, these inhibitors will have no effect.

Propecia and proscar will only help your scalp if you are on a cycle of testosterone. When taking DHT or DHT-derived steroids, the only way to save your scalp is localized anti-dht creams like spriro. Propecia will not help.
Good point. Man, why does this have to be so complicated? haha

[magnumforce]

Philadelph, be smart! Of course 5-alpha reductase inhibitors will have no effect on exogenous DHT! When I said it would negate the effects of DHT, I was talking about endogenous DHT! Taking these inhibitors along with DHT makes sense only if you apply DHT topically, but you would prevent yourself from systemic effect.
It seems that progesterone is the best protection possible for the prostate.
You should also know that DHT is an anabolic hormone too. systemic 5a-reductase if not a good approach.
About finding DHT gel:
http://www.ahs.web.com/cart/indx11.html
Ask pro bodybuilders, some use the gel to combat gynecomastia. Some might even be making the gel themselves.
Andractim is a brand sold in Europe.
Try also these guys
Stephen M. Simes, President and CEO, of Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc., 847-541-2525

[golarge]

You can buy DHT cream at

http://www.orderdihydrotestosterone.com/

[golarge]

Perhaps there's another way to approach this whole DHT issue. Propecia blocks the formation of DHT. If you're on Propeica(finasteride) for a long periods of time, your penis would become sensitized to DHT because of the lack of it flowing through your body. If you then stop cold turkey taking finasteride, your body would be flush with DHT. Perhaps this will cause growth in the penis or provide the opportunity to maximize the results from excersize because your penis would be full of DHT and sensitive to it.

Being that I've been on Propecia for months, I'm considering trying this "cycle" once I show some hair growth on my head - so maybe in 3-6 months I'll try it.

BTW, this is not my idea. I'm not smart enought to come up with this. I'm just repeating info. I've received.

Golarge!

[philadelph]

Philadelph, be smart! Of course 5-alpha reductase inhibitors will have no effect on exogenous DHT! When I said it would negate the effects of DHT, I was talking about endogenous DHT! Taking these inhibitors along with DHT makes sense only if you apply DHT topically, but you would prevent yourself from systemic effect.
It seems that progesterone is the best protection possible for the prostate.
You should also know that DHT is an anabolic hormone too. systemic 5a-reductase if not a good approach.
About finding DHT gel:
http://www.ahs.web.com/cart/indx11.html
Ask pro bodybuilders, some use the gel to combat gynecomastia. Some might even be making the gel themselves.
Andractim is a brand sold in Europe.
Try also these guys
Stephen M. Simes, President and CEO, of Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc., 847-541-2525

I am sorry I misread what you said. I thought you were telling them to take the inhibitors. My bad. We are thinking the same thing.

[Supra]

I think taking DHT blockers will hinder this from working, we are relying on it to work, I am going to rely on the IGF to keep the hair growing and thinking because that is what it does.

[Girthius]

If one was using the DHT blockers, and it did in fact block all the DHT in the body and protect the prostrate, hair, and sadly not allow the penis to get a huge dose of it! Surely there would be other areas in the body that would be effected as well from the blockers, areas that need the DHT, so as to be maintained. I am not sure, but doesnt DHT promote muscle growth? If so why do people that have been taken propecia for several years, look healthy, and not like a bag of bones, with no muscle mass.

[magnumforce]

Girthius,
DHT is anabolic.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1462
Blocking 5a-red and thus DHT is not advisable for maximum anabolism, especially for people not taking gear. It's possible to grow bigger muscles without DHT as there're other androgens than can bind to receptors.
Additonally, DHT is not aromatizing.

[magnumforce]

Finasteride or not, people who are prone to balding will end up bald. It's just a matter of years. Other approaches should be found. Shaving the skull maybe?

[Supra]

Get hairproducts

www.osmotics.com

The FNS system

[Supra]

Girthius? Anything?

Right now I am just soaking up the good stuff from IGF on my whole body, I want to direct it to my penis, lets get this going!

[magnumforce]

Lab experiement: It's has been 1 week since I started treating rabbits intracavernously with the IGF-1 83 AA anolog along with systemic sidenafil citrate. Results are extremely interesting.
Rabbits penises are still functional, except 1 that I sacrificed.
On a clinical level, the animals have shown a marked interest for mating; their bodyweight haven't changed. Note that their fasting blood sugar is extremely low; that explain their raging appetite.
Most surprising is the mating avoidance from the female rabbits. Mating mode or penises mass increases is the only explanation.
I sacrificed 1 rabbit to conduct anatomical examinations. The penis mass is 3 times bigger than usual on this particula

[magnumforce]

particular animal. Microscopic examination reveals a strange lacunar structure. In other words, it has a sponge like microscopic structure. Actually I'm very surprised penises are still functional.
I also examined the prostate gland, the pelvic muscles and especially the anus levator. The prostate gland is undoubtedly inflammed and bigger. The anus levator is almost twice as big as normal.
Even though the weight of the animal is the same, the overall aspect is bulkier, showing clear signs of systemic action of the compound.
Liver and heart seemed normal.
It's obvious that there're concerns about physiological changes with the treatment. It's also true that the doses used in this trial are massive. 5 mcg/kg
Anyway, it's very intersting and promissing. I'll try to convince some people at the lab to carry on a serious study.
I'll treat the other rabbits for an additional week, sacrifice a second one at the end of next week and monitors the 2 last ones for 2 or 3 months.

My conclusion: this treatment is no joke. It's extremely powerful and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone at this early stage. It's possible that it can bring hope to people suffering from micro-penis condition ans others who are ready to go under the knife, but it's really to early to try.
Do not inject IGF-1 directly into the penis, because there're safety concerns. Wait untill we conduct a serious study on different animals with different protocols. I wouldn't have thought the drug was that powerful.

[Supra]

I am doing 20mcg's though, mabey I need more, casue they are doing 5mcg's for rats, what you think?

[Girthius]

A little article from a research site about paperverine! Now all we need id to find a few sources to get this stuff!

"There is limited information about the oral or intracavernosal use of phentolamine, alone or in combination with intracavernosal papaverine. Effect seem to be shown, but on such small numbers of patients (137 men) that it would be unwise to extrapolate from these results. For intracavernosal phentolamine plus papaverine the NNT was 2.1 (1.6 to 3.2) in 93 men in trials conducted in the 1980s. There was one case of priapism."

[Supra]

Hey Girthius, tell us about the DHT Cream you got!

[Girthius]

Yes I have finally received my DHT cream! Now to figure out what else I need to combine with the cream!As I am unable to get a few different drugs such as IGF, etc., I am focusing on experimenting with the DHT cream use while trying to emulate a priapism! To do this I will have to purchase a few more drugs, which I should be able to get! In the mean time I will use the DHT cream in my girth workouts, and edging, and possibly some pumping! I will only use it in situations that have the penis in an erection state! Also I will be clamping and keeping the DHT in my cock for as long as possible, so for it to do it's job! The best situation would be to have a few more drugs(PGE1, Papaverine, Phentolamine) that would create a priapism for like 2-5 hours, while the DHT was on my penis, but these experiments will have to wait till I have these drugs!!

[philadelph]

Yes I have finally received my DHT cream! Now to figure out what else I need to combine with the cream!As I am unable to get a few different drugs such as IGF, etc., I am focusing on experimenting with the DHT cream use while trying to emulate a priapism! To do this I will have to purchase a few more drugs, which I should be able to get! In the mean time I will use the DHT cream in my girth workouts, and edging, and possibly some pumping! I will only use it in situations that have the penis in an erection state! Also I will be clamping and keeping the DHT in my cock for as long as possible, so for it to do it's job! The best situation would be to have a few more drugs(PGE1, Papaverine, Phentolamine) that would create a priapism for like 2-5 hours, while the DHT was on my penis, but these experiments will have to wait till I have these drugs!!


Where did you get it and how much was it?

[magnumforce]

Girthuis, add some magforce edging to the equation.

[Girthius]

Philadelph, this is where I bought mine! http://www.secure-sales.org.uk/clinic/gynecomastia-treatments.shtml




My first order, i had to buy 2 tubes, and 1 prostrate test kit( this is mandatory with your first order), which came to £110, postage included. The next time i order, i will be able to buy just 1 tube.It is fairly expensive! The best option would be to go over to France and buy it over the counter. You can buy it their for roughly £7. It's not listed as DHT cream, they call it Andractim in europe. Perhaps if you do a search using Andractim, you may be able to find someone within the U.S., that supplies it.

Also for injectables, I found this site:http://www.kronospharmacy.com/Context/Pharm/products_triple.aspx


They sell a 3 in 1 injection! It contains Papaverine, PGE1, and Phentolamine. These are the drugs that are needed to create a priapism! With a controlled amount you could produce an erection for 2-4 hours easily! I read somewhere that one guy injected too much, and had an erection for a couple days! He was in extreme pain, and eventually had to see a doctor, to have it releaved! From what I gather there are three ways that you can releave the priapism, if it has exsisted for a day or 2!

1. Apply an ice pack
2. Walking up and down a stair case
3. Going to a doctor, by which he will stick a needle in your penis, and draw out the traped blood!

[philadelph]

Man Girthius it looks like this is actually gonna come together! Damn I wish I would have known that they sold stuff like this over the counter in France when I was there last summer. Keep us posted!

It looks like maybe that link with the Papaverine and PEG1 you need a prescription?

[Girthius]

There's still much to do, and learn, and most of all buy! For me the biggest problem is finding sources, that are willing to sell, without all the red tape, like prescriptions, customs laws, they only sell to doctors, scientist, etc., etc. Also many of the products are for the sole purpose for Erectile Disorders, building muscle, etc., I don't think that the scientist that made this stuff, thought about, what if I man who was into natural penis enlargement, used this stuff to enhance their erections way past the point of normality(priapism)and used different techniques to trap blood, and to stretch the tunica and ligs, while in this state of priapism, so as to create a growth environment inside the penis?

I just don't think that their are many scientist that have jumped into this head first! Perhaps I am wrong! Magnum F. is the only one that is carrying out experiments in a lab, that is controlled! Perhaps he will discover something fantastic, and win the Nobel??If I had the money, i would create my own lab, and I would become the rat!!Perhaps that is the way to go? Set up as a lab, get some documents that say you are who you are, get a few mice in cages, and a good microscope, and a few tubes, then you could buy what ever you needed for your experiments, no problem!Theirs plenty of people that have fake qualifications, practicing medicine, etc.

[randolf]

Magnum I'm glad you are able to do these tests. I could inject bunnies but I couldn't sacrifice them. I'd have to visualy measure them when I threw a female bunny in haha.

Is that 5mcg of viagra per kilogram? That would be like 500 mg a day for me haha. With hormone prices from China now that is affordable though. Or if you are talking igf I dunno;).

Is there any reason you are using that igf 88 AA analog? I dont' really know the differences between them.

Girthius try to find those papervine, phentolamine and PEG1 from China. Can you explain to me what those ones do? I'm sort of confused and are they taken orally?

Also dude check out bromopline or something similar. And dostinex. Making sure that prolactin is low. BTW thanks for the priapism advice how to combat it, I have a feeling when my shipment of viagra comes in the next week or two I'm going to need that haha. Because I'm going to be ramping up the dosage. And taking multiple times per day.

Can that dht cream get through the skin? From my reading of the penis it has tons of DHT receptors. DHT plays a powerful role in the penis. That is why I had to stop taking this man-supplement I have. It has yohimbe which is ok, but it also has saw palmeto. Which kills off dht, which SUCKS.

[randolf]

There's still much to do, and learn, and most of all buy! For me the biggest problem is finding sources, that are willing to sell, without all the red tape, like prescriptions, customs laws, they only sell to doctors, scientist, etc., etc. Also many of the products are for the sole purpose for Erectile Disorders, building muscle, etc., I don't think that the scientist that made this stuff, thought about, what if I man who was into natural penis enlargement, used this stuff to enhance their erections way past the point of normality(priapism)and used different techniques to trap blood, and to stretch the tunica and ligs, while in this state of priapism, so as to create a growth environment inside the penis?

I just don't think that their are many scientist that have jumped into this head first! Perhaps I am wrong! Magnum F. is the only one that is carrying out experiments in a lab, that is controlled! Perhaps he will discover something fantastic, and win the Nobel??If I had the money, i would create my own lab, and I would become the rat!!Perhaps that is the way to go? Set up as a lab, get some documents that say you are who you are, get a few mice in cages, and a good microscope, and a few tubes, then you could buy what ever you needed for your experiments, no problem!Theirs plenty of people that have fake qualifications, practicing medicine, etc.

Damn your avatar is distracting but very funny!

You are exactly right here. Scientists invent things with noble intentions like synthetic testosterone for men who aren't making testosterone properly. But the mass market is people who want to up their testosterone hugely.

Another example in the future will be things like synthetic limbs that are extremely strong. At first they will go for amputees but in the long run others who just want perma super arm will get one. Or even a pair:P. Ok maybe that example was to far out, but you know what I'm talking about;). Better example aging people roiding it up with test and igf. People were coming back from Mexico with their hair turned black and looking 15 years younger.

Speaking of aging I think people who think like us and read this thread would like this link. http://www.methuselahfoundation.org/links.asp

Its so funny a bunch of amatuer types can think of these things but the establishment is to inside the box to see them.

I was thinking about mice too, but they would be hard to measure penis size. Plus they dont' live very long.

But I also know the way corporate america is today. They wouldn't take on something like this I bet, too risky. What you'd do is get venture capital start out on your own with a lab in a country with no regulations. And incorporated somewhere where the company can't be sued from people who it goes bad on.

Selling to customers around the world.

[randolf]

I believe that in order to gain like an 1" in a month, you must put your body into a state known as "Reverse Penile Engineering"! You must fool your body into thinking it is going through puberty! To accomplish this you need to take a growth hormone, stock up on cailis or generic viagra, get some DHT cream, and some Avodart, or Propecia. All of this drugs should go along side a strong workout program for the penis! In undertaking this routine of quick growth, you will need to already be on some sort of growth hormone.I think that the main growth will come from taking the Cailis, then applying the DHT cream to the penis! After about 30 minutes, both drugs should be in the system, so as to start workouts! Workouts should include edging, supra slammers, ballooning, and most if not all types of girth work! The idea is to get fully erect, for 1-2-3 hours! The DHT cream will supply the much needed DHT in the penis during these workouts! This is the key ingredient that causes growth in the penis, when we go through puberty! Once erect you could clamp off, and let the DHT remain in the penis while erect, let it do it's job of growing new cells! Now this is the tricky part! We know that DHT promotes growth in the genital region, but it also enlarges the prostrate gland, and is a cause of male pattern baldness! To prevent this from happening, you should take Avodart, Propecia, etc.I am unsure about taking the Avodart, Propecia etc, to counter the effects of DHT on the prostrate, and hair, as it may also effect the DHT in the penis! So we need to find out if this is the case.If the penis is not effected by Avodart or Propecia, then there is no reason why anyone could not grow!! With the DHT, IGF, or other growth hormones, cailis, a good routine of stretching and girth work, a good diet, physical exercise, supplements, and good mental health, how can we loose, we should only be able to gain, and I mean gain allot!!

Shit dude you are thinking brilliantly! The DHT cream is definately a wicked idea. Don't worry about the hair loss. Thats more genetic and a lack of estrogen production. Men make estrogen by aromatizing testosterone.

If you have healthy hair dont' worry about it at all. If you start losing your hair then worry:). If DHT was that bad for us we'd all be totally bald. And not just on the tops of the head.

I think you are also right about good exercise. Over the last week I have been doing some serious hiking, well ok a couple hours at a time but still:). And my testosterone has shot WAY up I can feel it. My erections are MUCH MUCH stronger. When you are just lazing out like I have been a lot you don't really produce the growth hormones and test etc. You have some of course but not the high levels:).

Anyway keep on going with the dht I'm pretty excited to read more of what you have to say.

[randolf]

Well its the lotion that avant labs and others use on the localized hormone delivery products. It is supposed to have very little systemic uptake of the hormone you put in it. It delivers whatever you put in it to the area you apply it. Have you heard of a product called "Sytenhance"?

It's also what I have heard people using for a DHT cream for the penis.

philadelph that sounds like what we would want. You seem to know a lot about these gels and how they go in. For the dht what exactly would you put in the cream, and how much dht per unit of gel?

If this delivers mainly to the area you don't have to worry about the side effects.

[Bigbadbison]

Hello,
I think I am going to take Fin for thirty days, quit cold turkey and and start 1/day application of Andractim. I am not sure which concentrations I will use. Has anyone tried this plan?
Bbb

[Bigbadbison]

Hello,
I think I am going to take Fin for thirty days, quit cold turkey and and start 1/day application of Andractim. I am not sure which concentrations I will use. Has anyone tried this plan?
Bbb


Do you guys think I will get gains this way. Is the other stuff ( really necessary?

[philadelph]

philadelph that sounds like what we would want. You seem to know a lot about these gels and how they go in. For the dht what exactly would you put in the cream, and how much dht per unit of gel?

If this delivers mainly to the area you don't have to worry about the side effects.


For the DHT they used the pro-hormone 3-alpha. It has the highest conversion rate to DHT. The mgs per unit would vary, but you can put up to 6 grams in one bottle of this "Gel#3".

[magnumforce]

Good news guys, IGF-1 promotes penile growth! IDF1-1 along with DHT is the key to growth.
My experiments carried on rabbits prove it. I'll post the definitive results when I've time and hope to conduct a very serious large-scale study on the same subject using 2 different animal models. I'm trying to get funds from a pharmaceutical company. I've convinced it it should revolutionized penile augmentation business and stop the mutilating surgical procedures. Who said again on this board I should get the Nobel Prize?
In the meantime, read:


Insulin-like growth factor 1, but not growth hormone, has in vitro proliferative effects on neonatal foreskin fibroblasts without affecting 5-alpha-reductase or androgen receptor activity.

Dykstra KD, Payne AM, Abdelrahim M, Francis GL.

Department of Pediatrics, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Maryland.

Clinical observation of patients with congenital growth hormone (GH) deficiency and Laron-type dwarfism suggests that factors such as GH or insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) might in addition to androgens, be needed for normal phallic growth. We speculated GH or IGF-1 might have direct actions on genital tissues and performed the present study to evaluate the in vitro effects of GH and IGF-1 on cultured neonatal foreskin fibroblasts. Cells derived from foreskins of normal newborns were studied between cell passages 6 and 15. Serum-free media with and without 100 ng/ml GH, IGF-1, or both were added 24 hours prior to and at the time of study. To determine the activity of 5-alpha-reductase (5-alpha-R), 3H-testosterone (T: 2 nM) was added, and 5-alpha-R activity was calculated as femtomoles 3H-dihydrotestosterone and 3H-androstanediol produced/microgram DNA/hour. Androgen receptor (AR) binding was determined by the addition of 3H-dihydrotestosterone (dHT; 0.03125-0.5 nM) in the presence and absence of a 200-fold excess of unlabeled dHT. Specific binding was used in Scatchard analysis for determination of AR number (Bmax) and binding affinity (Kd). The rate of DNA synthesis was determined by incorporation of 3H-thymidine (3H-Thy) into trichloroacetic acid-insoluble material. DNA and protein content were determined on cell lysates. IGF-1, but not GH, had proliferative effects (significant increases in the rate of 3H-Thy incorporation, DNA, and protein content) but no effect on 5-alpha-R activity, Bmax or Kd.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

[magnumforce]

Direct evidence of the role of DHT and NO in penile function suggesting Viagra-like compounds alon gwith DHT is a necessary auxiliary in PE.

Dihydrotestosterone is the active androgen in the maintenance of nitric oxide-mediated penile erection in the rat.

Lugg JA, Rajfer J, Gonzalez-Cadavid NF.

Department of Surgery, University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) School of Medicine, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance 90509.

Androgens are essential for the expression of normal libido in the male, but their role in the maintenance of the erectile response in humans is controversial. It has been shown previously in the rat that castration induces 1) loss of penile reflexes; and 2) considerable reduction in the erectile response to electric field stimulation (EFS) of the cavernosal nerve. Both of these effects can be reversed by testosterone replacement. The current study was performed to determine whether these testosterone effects are mediated via its conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and to what extent the synthesis of the mediator of penile erection, nitric oxide, is affected by castration and androgen replacement. Five-month-old rats were either castrated or left intact. The orchiectomized rats were implanted with SILASTIC brand silicon tubing (Dow Corning) containing testosterone or DHT with or without daily injections of the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride. After 7 days, rats were submitted to EFS and the intracavernosal pressure was recorded. Castration reduced the EFS-induced erectile response by 50% in comparison with intact rats and testosterone restored this decrease to normal. When finasteride was given to these testosterone-treated castrate rats, erectile response was not restored. DHT was as effective as testosterone in restoring response to EFS in castrates and this effect was not decreased by finasteride. Nitric oxide synthase activity in the penile cytosol was measured by the arginine-citrulline conversion and was found to correlate with the EFS determinations. These results show that DHT is the active androgen in the prevention of erectile failure seen in castrated rats, and suggest that this effect may be mediated, at least partially, by changes in nitric oxide synthase levels in the penis.

[magnumforce]

By the way, I hope Cadavid is not working on the same project as me!

[magnumforce]

Don't use Testosterone but DHT on your penis!! Beware of aromatization to estrogen and 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors!

Testosterone down-regulates the levels of androgen receptor mRNA in smooth muscle cells from the rat corpora cavernosa via aromatization to estrogens.

Lin MC, Rajfer J, Swerdloff RS, Gonzalez-Cadavid NF.

Department of Surgery, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance 90509.

Androgens down-regulate the levels of androgen receptors (AR) and AR mRNA in the penis and prostate of castrated rats, and are assumed to cause their decrease during sexual maturation in the penile smooth muscle of intact rats. In order to determine whether these effects occur directly at the target cell level, and to what extent they are due to testosterone (T) or to their metabolites, we have measured AR mRNA in cultures of smooth muscle cells from the adult rat corpora cavernosa treated in vitro with sex steroids. T at high concentrations (100 nM) acted like dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in increasing moderately the levels of AR mRNA in both proliferating and contact-inhibited cells. However, when conversion of T to DHT was blocked by the 5-alpha reductase inhibitor finasteride, the levels of AR mRNA were considerably down-regulated by T (10-500 nM), particularly in the contact-inhibited cells. Finasteride by itself was inactive. These effects in both types of cultures were inhibited by platelet derived growth factor (PDGF) (20 ng/ml), a growth factor that up-regulates AR mRNA levels, and by fadrozole (100 nM), an aromatase inhibitor of the T/estrogen conversion. Estradiol (50 nM) was even more potent than T in decreasing AR mRNA levels. With the exception of PDGF none of the treatments affected significantly cell growth, as measured by DNA synthesis and content. Our results indicate that it is possible to modulate in vitro AR mRNA levels in the penile smooth muscle cells, and that under normal conditions DHT and T act as moderate up-regulators. When DHT formation is inhibited, the aromatization pathway of T to estradiol will prevail and induce a pronounced down-regulation of AR mRNA levels. We assume that the in vivo AR down-regulation in the penile smooth muscle by androgens is an indirect effect mediated by a paracrine or endocrine mechanism elicited in another tissue.

[randolf]

Do you guys think I will get gains this way. Is the other stuff ( really necessary?

I'm sure it will help gains. After you go off the finasterside.

[randolf]

Good news guys, IGF-1 promotes penile growth! IDF1-1 along with DHT is the key to growth.
My experiments carried on rabbits prove it. I'll post the definitive results when I've time and hope to conduct a very serious large-scale study on the same subject using 2 different animal models. I'm trying to get funds from a pharmaceutical company. I've convinced it it should revolutionized penile augmentation business and stop the mutilating surgical procedures. Who said again on this board I should get the Nobel Prize?
In the meantime, read:


Insulin-like growth factor 1, but not growth hormone, has in vitro proliferative effects on neonatal foreskin fibroblasts without affecting 5-alpha-reductase or androgen receptor activity.

Dykstra KD, Payne AM, Abdelrahim M, Francis GL.

Department of Pediatrics, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Maryland.

Clinical observation of patients with congenital growth hormone (GH) deficiency and Laron-type dwarfism suggests that factors such as GH or insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) might in addition to androgens, be needed for normal phallic growth. We speculated GH or IGF-1 might have direct actions on genital tissues and performed the present study to evaluate the in vitro effects of GH and IGF-1 on cultured neonatal foreskin fibroblasts. Cells derived from foreskins of normal newborns were studied between cell passages 6 and 15. Serum-free media with and without 100 ng/ml GH, IGF-1, or both were added 24 hours prior to and at the time of study. To determine the activity of 5-alpha-reductase (5-alpha-R), 3H-testosterone (T: 2 nM) was added, and 5-alpha-R activity was calculated as femtomoles 3H-dihydrotestosterone and 3H-androstanediol produced/microgram DNA/hour. Androgen receptor (AR) binding was determined by the addition of 3H-dihydrotestosterone (dHT; 0.03125-0.5 nM) in the presence and absence of a 200-fold excess of unlabeled dHT. Specific binding was used in Scatchard analysis for determination of AR number (Bmax) and binding affinity (Kd). The rate of DNA synthesis was determined by incorporation of 3H-thymidine (3H-Thy) into trichloroacetic acid-insoluble material. DNA and protein content were determined on cell lysates. IGF-1, but not GH, had proliferative effects (significant increases in the rate of 3H-Thy incorporation, DNA, and protein content) but no effect on 5-alpha-R activity, Bmax or Kd.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

I'm sort of confused by this one, are they saying the IGF-1 made the DHT receptors much more active?

[randolf]

For the DHT they used the pro-hormone 3-alpha. It has the highest conversion rate to DHT. The mgs per unit would vary, but you can put up to 6 grams in one bottle of this "Gel#3".

I would think if possible just go with outright dht. Doesn't pro-hormones convert in your liver? It then would be a systemic thing, which still could be good, but not as good I would think. Can you buy outright DHT cream, I tried following girthius' link but it didn't go anywhere.

[philadelph]

I would think if possible just go with outright dht. Doesn't pro-hormones convert in your liver? It then would be a systemic thing, which still could be good, but not as good I would think. Can you buy outright DHT cream, I tried following girthius' link but it didn't go anywhere.


It will convert directly in muscles (like sytenhance), I am not sure if it would in a penis. DHT would obviously be better, but getting some into the states is a problem.

[randolf]

It will convert directly in muscles (like sytenhance), I am not sure if it would in a penis. DHT would obviously be better, but getting some into the states is a problem.

ahh I see, the pro-hormone one would be good then. I'm in Canada so I dont' really have to worry about any rules ;).

I think you are right about buying the gel seperate and mixing it yourself. I followed some of the links on this thread and the dht cream is hella expensive. I think it would be better to follow Magnum's links and order from China the dht. And get the gel somewhere cheap. Then you can use a higher concentration and more often as well.

[randolf]

Guys I also found this study on DHT. Someone has probably posted this before, but I couldn't see it on this thread. It looks promising because none of the growth was temporary. Also these guys only did the study for 8 weeks or 4 weeks. We would be staying on it for years. And even during that short time period they reported gains which I find impressive.

Transdermal dihydrotestosterone therapy and its effects on patients with microphallus.

Choi SK, Han SW, Kim DH, de Lignieres B.

Department of Urology, Yonsei University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea.

To investigate the efficacy of transdermal dihydrotestosterone therapy on 22 patients with microphallus, we applied dihydrotestosterone gel for 8 weeks to the external genitalia at daily doses of 12.5 mg. and 25 mg. for ages less than and older than 10 years, respectively. All patients were evaluated for penile and prostatic growth, pituitary-gonadal axis function, serum sex hormone binding globulin, lipid metabolism, hepatotoxicity, bone age and height velocity. All patients demonstrated growth of the penis during treatment. The mean increase rate (153%) in the first 4 weeks of treatment was higher than that (118%) of the second 4 weeks. Of importance is that responses were noted in 4 patients who had failed testosterone therapy for microphallus. The pituitary-gonadal axis was transiently suppressed during treatment, and serum sex hormone binding globulin and lipid metabolism were transiently affected during treatment. Serum alkaline phosphatase increased, mainly due to change of bone isoenzyme but bone ages and mean height velocity were not significantly affected. In conclusion, transdermal dihydrotestosterone therapy is an effective and relatively safe modality in the treatment of microphallus.

PMID: 8326617 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[golarge]

Girthius wrote:
To prevent this from happening, you should take Avodart, Propecia, etc.I am unsure about taking the Avodart, Propecia etc, to counter the effects of DHT on the prostrate, and hair, as it may also effect the DHT in the penis! So we need to find out if this is the case.If the penis is not effected by Avodart or Propecia, then there is no reason why anyone could not grow!!

Originally Posted by Bigbadbison
Hello,
I think I am going to take Fin for thirty days, quit cold turkey and and start 1/day application of Andractim. I am not sure which concentrations I will use. Has anyone tried this plan?
Bbb

I'm giving this a try too. But I've been on Propecia for two months and I'm going to give it a few more because I like what its doing for my hairline!!! I'm not doing any PE right now, but will start once I go off of Propecia.

Regarding the drugs of choice....Propecia and Avodart will definitely reduce DHT in the penis and limit your growth potential as they are both systemic. There is another consideration for anyone trying a DHT-reduction phase by taking these drugs(like Bison), then stopping cold turkey. The goal with this is to try to sensitize your growth receptors. When you stop cold turkey, you want the drugs to flush out of your system as fast as possible. For this purpose Propecia seems like a better choice, because it only lasts about 15 hours in the body whereas Avodart lasts weeks.

[Bigbadbison]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1462

[Girthius]

Sorry for being away for a few days guys! I have had major probs with the computer!! Anyway I have an update on my progress with the DHT gel! I have been using it for the past 2 weeks, very sparingly(3-4 times a week).

I only apply it during an erect or semi erect workout! Full erection workouts are the best! It is absorbed into the penis very quickly(5minutes) There is no mess or oily texture after it is applied. I use it for edging, balooning,pumping, and for intense girth workouts, that require a clampimg technique! At the moment I do not have any cailis, or generic viagra, but have seen some good results, without the aid of such drugs! It would most likely yield greater results if you could have an erection for 1-3 hours!! I do plan on getting some cailis, and other drugs in the near future!

As for the effects: More frequent erections in the morning, and throughout the night! After ejectualation, the erection stays firm for 10-20 minutes, without doing anything! Loss of body fat, especially in the abs section. More facial hair, body hair! No hair loss as of yet! I have gained about 1/2 inch in length, and some in girth! Remeber that this is by using it in small amounts in small time frames, as I do not have any cailis, to prolong my erection!I also workout as well, so the excess DHT goes to building muscle. I will keep you updated on when I get the other drugs that I need to make this experiment complete!

[Supra]

That is some bad ass gains!! I am going to get it now

[chance]

Hello Supra & Girthius. I have been a lurker here for a while and have been
very intrigued with this thread. I have a tidbit of information to add.
I have researched different PE methods for the last ten years and have seen
benefits from many different methods but I've never gained much increase in
size. In my research, I ran across a program by Ray Carlton(anyone familiar)
called the RACA program. He uses many different methods but one of them is
the use of hormones. I can't back his statements but they go along with
your research. These are his main ideas as far as growth hormones:

"The use of growth hormones and formulas that increase T levels, when used
in combination, will stimulate growth in any body part that is exercised, ie. the
penis. It is important to take the recommended dose and not to exceed that
dose. The products he uses are TESTATROPINAL (which is a much weaker
homeopathic to raise T levels and lower estrogen levels), HUMAGRO(
SOMATOTROPIN- Homeopathic Growth Hormone, which he says is a very
strong growth stimulate used to stimulate linear growth?), and tribulus.

Also, make sure that glucose levels (blood sugar) are seriously balanced,
important for enlargement potency.
Supplement low levels of Testosterone with supplements to raise them to a
proper level.
Maintain proper levels of human growth hormone with supplements, this is
very important for growing new cell tissue.

High T levels along with high hGH levels together with strong blood circulation
is the beginning of mass Penis Erectile Tissue Development. You will find that your erections continue to get stronger and your size larger as you T and hGH
levels increase and your circulation improves. It may take 3 to 6 weeks to
build hormones to the proper level, but once you reach that level, and maintain that level, in conjunction with your enlargement exercises, you will
see great improvement in your performance and penis size. The supplements
will greatly enhance your efforts."

Once again, I have not tried this part of the routine and cannot verify the
information. I just felt that it supported your thoughts and would add fuel to
you fires. He recommends several usual methods to go along with the hormones. Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to support your efforts

[philadelph]

Hello Supra & Girthius. I have been a lurker here for a while and have been
very intrigued with this thread. I have a tidbit of information to add.
I have researched different PE methods for the last ten years and have seen
benefits from many different methods but I've never gained much increase in
size. In my research, I ran across a program by Ray Carlton(anyone familiar)
called the RACA program. He uses many different methods but one of them is
the use of hormones. I can't back his statements but they go along with
your research. These are his main ideas as far as growth hormones:

"The use of growth hormones and formulas that increase T levels, when used
in combination, will stimulate growth in any body part that is exercised, ie. the
penis. It is important to take the recommended dose and not to exceed that
dose. The products he uses are TESTATROPINAL (which is a much weaker
homeopathic to raise T levels and lower estrogen levels), HUMAGRO(
SOMATOTROPIN- Homeopathic Growth Hormone, which he says is a very
strong growth stimulate used to stimulate linear growth?), and tribulus.

Also, make sure that glucose levels (blood sugar) are seriously balanced,
important for enlargement potency.
Supplement low levels of Testosterone with supplements to raise them to a
proper level.
Maintain proper levels of human growth hormone with supplements, this is
very important for growing new cell tissue.

High T levels along with high hGH levels together with strong blood circulation
is the beginning of mass Penis Erectile Tissue Development. You will find that your erections continue to get stronger and your size larger as you T and hGH
levels increase and your circulation improves. It may take 3 to 6 weeks to
build hormones to the proper level, but once you reach that level, and maintain that level, in conjunction with your enlargement exercises, you will
see great improvement in your performance and penis size. The supplements
will greatly enhance your efforts."

Once again, I have not tried this part of the routine and cannot verify the
information. I just felt that it supported your thoughts and would add fuel to
you fires. He recommends several usual methods to go along with the hormones. Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to support your efforts


Does the man (Ray) who reccomends these homeopathic products sell them?

[chance]

Yes, he sells many products for penis enlargement. Pumps, stretchers, visualization,
subliminal tapes, homeopathic growth hormones, and erection products such as
tribulus, yohimbine, and phytobol. He is trying to push the products, no doubt.

I just wanted to point out that his hormone ideas agree with what Supra and
Girthius are trying to test.

[Bigbadbison]

Sorry for being away for a few days guys! I have had major probs with the computer!! Anyway I have an update on my progress with the DHT gel! I have been using it for the past 2 weeks, very sparingly(3-4 times a week).

I only apply it during an erect or semi erect workout! Full erection workouts are the best! It is absorbed into the penis very quickly(5minutes) There is no mess or oily texture after it is applied. I use it for edging, balooning,pumping, and for intense girth workouts, that require a clampimg technique! At the moment I do not have any cailis, or generic viagra, but have seen some good results, without the aid of such drugs! It would most likely yield greater results if you could have an erection for 1-3 hours!! I do plan on getting some cailis, and other drugs in the near future!

As for the effects: More frequent erections in the morning, and throughout the night! After ejectualation, the erection stays firm for 10-20 minutes, without doing anything! Loss of body fat, especially in the abs section. More facial hair, body hair! No hair loss as of yet! I have gained about 1/2 inch in length, and some in girth! Remeber that this is by using it in small amounts in small time frames, as I do not have any cailis, to prolong my erection!I also workout as well, so the excess DHT goes to building muscle. I will keep you updated on when I get the other drugs that I need to make this experiment complete!

If I understand correctly, you have gained 1/2 inch in length and some girth in two weeks. If I were you, I wouldn't change a thing. I doubt you grow any faster than that during puberty. If this growth rate were to continue, you could have 4 more inches in just four months!!!

You are gaining fast and exposing your body to very little of this stuff. Why add the other stuff? Do you think any of the 1/2 inch is just stiffer erections as opposed to hypertrophy?

I am on the edge of my pasture.

Oh, what % and brand are you using and how much are you applying?

Bbb

Congratulations.

[Girthius]

Thanks for the post chance, that was very interesting! I feel that were on to something, but we must find the correct balance with the growth harmones, and DHT. As of now I only have the DHT gel, so my experiments are very basic and limited! I will be able to go all out once I get some viagra, and some growth harmones.

BBD, as for the extra 1/2 inches in 2 weeks, it could in fact be down to a more extreme erection, it is very early in the game to say for sure, but once I am able to sustain an erection for an hour or more,and my growth harmones&DHT levels are at their peak, this will be the big test! As usual it all comes down to getting the proper drugs etc.

There are a few more things that I need, such as localized 5ar inhibitors for the prostrate, and the scalp!

[philadelph]

Thanks for the post chance, that was very interesting! I feel that were on to something, but we must find the correct balance with the growth harmones, and DHT. As of now I only have the DHT gel, so my experiments are very basic and limited! I will be able to go all out once I get some viagra, and some growth harmones.

BBD, as for the extra 1/2 inches in 2 weeks, it could in fact be down to a more extreme erection, it is very early in the game to say for sure, but once I am able to sustain an erection for an hour or more,and my growth harmones&DHT levels are at their peak, this will be the big test! As usual it all comes down to getting the proper drugs etc.

There are a few more things that I need, such as localized 5ar inhibitors for the prostrate, and the scalp!


Do you know approx. how many mgs of DHT you are applying each time? These are very impressive gains I might add.

[Girthius]

Thanks Philadelph! As for the amount of DHT, each tube contains 2.5% DHT. When I use it, I use enough to fill a teaspoon(rough estimate). Also when you apply it, make sure it goes onto the shaft and glans only! Avoid the nutsack! Whether my gains have come from the DHT directly, along with edging, ballooning etc, or the increase in my erections due to the DHT, or a new stretching device i have been working on lately, or a combination of all of the above, who knows? I will be able to pinpoint exactly what is causing the growth with more time spent experimenting hopefully!

[philadelph]

Thanks Philadelph! As for the amount of DHT, each tube contains 2.5% DHT. When I use it, I use enough to fill a teaspoon(rough estimate). Also when you apply it, make sure it goes onto the shaft and glans only! Avoid the nutsack! Whether my gains have come from the DHT directly, along with edging, ballooning etc, or the increase in my erections due to the DHT, or a new stretching device i have been working on lately, or a combination of all of the above, who knows? I will be able to pinpoint exactly what is causing the growth with more time spent experimenting hopefully!


The link to the DHT isn't working anymore. Are you from the U.S.? Because I would think it would be hard to get that over the border here.

[golarge]

Girthius,

Those are great results! I've always been curious about DHT and if it would work for anyone. I have my doubts that it would be that effective for me because I already have high DHT. Normal male range for my age group 30-35 is 2-10ppm on a saliva test. I'm a 13.2! So I think my "receptors" are already conditioned to handle high levels of DHT.

Do you have any idea what your T and DHT levels were before you began?

Golarge

[Girthius]

I dont know what my levels were before I started, all i can say is that I had all the signs of low Test! I will be taking a test soon, so as to establish what my level is a this point in time!

[randolf]

Thanks Philadelph! As for the amount of DHT, each tube contains 2.5% DHT. When I use it, I use enough to fill a teaspoon(rough estimate). Also when you apply it, make sure it goes onto the shaft and glans only! Avoid the nutsack! Whether my gains have come from the DHT directly, along with edging, ballooning etc, or the increase in my erections due to the DHT, or a new stretching device i have been working on lately, or a combination of all of the above, who knows? I will be able to pinpoint exactly what is causing the growth with more time spent experimenting hopefully!

Girthius thanks for the information. How do you avoid getting the cream on your balls? Do you just rub it in along the shaft and glans then apply a different lubricant for jelqing?

Or just work it in really good or something? Also guys if you find a good price on dht cream tell me. I need to order some.

Btw girthius I just read in another thread you are nearly 7 girth. Geezus man you are going to be a monster with all this. What size are you going for lol? I'm shooting for a super hard 10x8.

[Bigbadbison]

I dont know what my levels were before I started, all i can say is that I had all the signs of low Test! I will be taking a test soon, so as to establish what my level is a this point in time!

Girthius,
Please keep us updated with everything you do and everything that changes. I am hooked on this thread.

I think about this tread all day long. I so excited about the prospect of this working that I just might shit myself.

It's OK, bison don't wear pants.

Oh yea, what happened to Supra? I miss that guy.

[Supra]

I'm still here!

[Bigbadbison]

I'm still here!

Oh good. So how about an update. What are you doing and what are you getting?

[Girthius]

Randolf, as for as appling the DHT gel, the tube comes with a device that allows you to measure out the amount you want. I apply 1.25g to each side of the shaft, and massage it in all the way up to the glans!I stretch it out as if I was going to take a measurement, then apply the gel! The gel is absorbed very quickly(5-8min.) I apply some lubricant after it has been absorbed, so as to help with the exercises, also this want effect the gel, as it will have already been absorbed into the penis by then!

The best way I feel would be to take some viagra, and get erect, then apply the DHT gel, but I don't have this at the moment! Also the gel that I have is only 2.5% DHT, it would be better if you could get the DHT on it's own, then get a base gel, and mix your own, thus creating a more potent gel!!

I will also be getting some paperverine, PGE1, phentolamine! These drugs help relax the smooth muscles in the penis! You can create a priapism with these drugs if you take too much!

I am also interested in nitric oxide, as it inlarges the internal diameters of the arteries when taken, which means increased blood flow! I will let you know more about this drug later! It also gives you a good pump for those of you into body building, but you probably already know this!

I have experienced more effects from the DHT gel! I do have a Jes-extender, and I have been wearing it during the day, as an ADS! The last few days it has been dam painful to wear, infact I can not get the thing on!! My base girth has exploded to the point that the extender will not go over that area no longer!! I am also having probs with my pump as well, as the base girth is f**king everything up! My base girth will not allow my penis to be pulled into the cylinder! And to make matters worse, the skin/tunica on the underside of my penis, feels like it has been over stretched! At times it feels as though it is about to split, very painful!!! This must be what it feels like to have priapism, but on a small scale!! My balls have not shrunk at all, and also my morning wood is dam good!!

The exciting thing is that I have the bare miniumum of drugs etc.! Once I get all of the desired drugs that I feel will make this experiment complete, I will be able to really push the limites!!

As for my desired size, 10x8 would be great, but once I make it to that, I will probably continue, until I hit 12 or 13x8 or 9, but that's a while yet!!

[Bigbadbison]

Randolf, as for as appling the DHT gel, the tube comes with a device that allows you to measure out the amount you want. I apply 1.25g to each side of the shaft, and massage it in all the way up to the glans!I stretch it out as if I was going to take a measurement, then apply the gel! The gel is absorbed very quickly(5-8min.) I apply some lubricant after it has been absorbed, so as to help with the exercises, also this want effect the gel, as it will have already been absorbed into the penis by then!

The best way I feel would be to take some viagra, and get erect, then apply the DHT gel, but I don't have this at the moment! Also the gel that I have is only 2.5% DHT, it would be better if you could get the DHT on it's own, then get a base gel, and mix your own, thus creating a more potent gel!!

I will also be getting some paperverine, PGE1, phentolamine! These drugs help relax the smooth muscles in the penis! You can create a priapism with these drugs if you take too much!

I am also interested in nitric oxide, as it inlarges the internal diameters of the arteries when taken, which means increased blood flow! I will let you know more about this drug later! It also gives you a good pump for those of you into body building, but you probably already know this!

I have experienced more effects from the DHT gel! I do have a Jes-extender, and I have been wearing it during the day, as an ADS! The last few days it has been dam painful to wear, infact I can not get the thing on!! My base girth has exploded to the point that the extender will not go over that area no longer!! I am also having probs with my pump as well, as the base girth is f**king everything up! My base girth will not allow my penis to be pulled into the cylinder! And to make matters worse, the skin/tunica on the underside of my penis, feels like it has been over stretched! At times it feels as though it is about to split, very painful!!! This must be what it feels like to have priapism, but on a small scale!! My balls have not shrunk at all, and also my morning wood is dam good!!

The exciting thing is that I have the bare miniumum of drugs etc.! Once I get all of the desired drugs that I feel will make this experiment complete, I will be able to really push the limites!!

As for my desired size, 10x8 would be great, but once I make it to that, I will probably continue, until I hit 12 or 13x8 or 9, but that's a while yet!!

This sounds really interesting. Are you continuing to get length gains? Why would you want to add anything else to the mix or get a more potent gel. It sounds like your growth is amazing. Really man, I would just keep doing the small amount you are doing and enjoy the gains. I mean, the skin on your prick is about to split.

Good work man!
Bbb

[Girthius]

Well I have just found out why I am unable to get my Jes-extender all the way on, why pumping is a pain now, and the new sensation of my cock feeling like it's going to split! I just took a base girth measurement, and it was 7"! To ad to this, it wasn't a really rock hard erection!! Also I have noticed my balls are increasing in size! They are about the size of large chicken eggs at this point in time!I have also experienced some head aches when I am fully errect, this could be due to more blood volume in my unit!

[Dagger]

That sounds really great girthius!

I would like to know if your headsize has grown. Just use a ruler and measure from bottom to top or something, remember to squeeze blood into the head to get exact results. Head size is one of the things I would really like to increase, but seems like my glans are really resistant to growth :(

The link you supplied didn't work though. Assuming this link is the same: http://www.secure-sales.org.uk/clinic/testosterone-gel.shtml

Can also buy it much cheaper at:
http://www.farmamondo.com/vista.cfm?ID=161&LI=e
But seems you really need to send a prescription to get it from them.

Now what im wondering, is how the hell am I going to get this to Norway? I need prescription to even get something like this, not to mention testosterone is probably on the doping list.

How do you get it to the states or wherever you are? How do you get it without prescription?

Btw, isn't this pretty much the same as I have seen on some earlier threads? Think it was Androgel or whatever they used to apply on the penis. Some had results, others didn't. Your results seems great so far though, can't wait to hear your progress!

[Girthius]

Hey Dagger!!! I live in the UK! As far as I know Andractim(DHT Gel) is not available in the states. I got mine from the All Saints Clinic in Cyprus. The cheapiest place to get Andractim, is in France, I think it is roughly 8 Euro's per tube! As you may or may not know, this product is not known as DHT gel in Europe! It is known as Andractim, so if you do a search for Andractim/Norway, you may have some luck in finding it! Here's the link again:http://www.allsaintsclinic.org/getting-started.shtml

Let me know how you get on in your search!!

[philadelph]

I think it is going to be tough to get this into the states. I mean, it is the same thing as ordering anabolic steroids in. DHT is schedule III controled substance here in the states I believe.

[magnumforce]

Don't apply androgel on your penis. This is testosterone.

[magnumforce]

Get prohormone powders that convert to DHT and use a carier. Cheap and legal solution.

[Dagger]

Yeah, in US its a controlled substance:
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/alpha/alphaq_z.htm

Substance Stanolone
DEA Number 4000
CSA Schedule III
Classification Non Narcotic
Other Names Anabolex, Andractim, Pesomax, dihydrotestosterone

[magnumforce]

I was asked about prohormones converting into DHT.

5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT
3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT
3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT

http://www.bulknutrition.com
http://www.designersupps.com
http://www.blackstarlabs.com
http://www.1fast400.com

[magnumforce]

carriers:
http://www.blackstarlabs.com/?cPath=19&products_id=57

[magnumforce]

Some guys make their own carriers from the following ingredients:
Isopropyl alcohol, Benzyl alcohol, Water, Octyl salicylate, d-limonene, oleic acid, linoleic acid, carbomer.

[magnumforce]

Another formula:
Isopropyl alcohol, propylene glycol, octyl salicylate, d-limone, oleic acid, linolic acid and glycerol

[magnumforce]

And add some liquid cialis to the mix.

[Supra]

Never apply testosterone cream to your peins, only DHT Cream

[Dagger]

Anything new to report Girthius? Gains?

Anyone else planning on trying it? Would like to try it if I could get a hold of the cream.

[Zol]

This thread has gone very quiet, so ill chip in to liven the thread up a bit.
I Have spent the last few days trying to locate a source of DHT cream that is cheaper that the all saints clinic stuff. Having a real tough time tho. If I cant find any illl have to be resigned to paying £100 for 2 tubes. Combined with getting my IGF and steroid cycles together, this is gonna cost me a packet.

Im probably going to run 1000mcg of IGF1-lr3 over 25 days aswell as dht. Im expecting that 2 tubes of dht will last longer than the igf so i will continue to run that untill i run out. If this is not combined with the steroid cycle i will run a course of clomid and tribulus at the same time to boost my natural test levels slightly.

I am also going to be doing a steroid cycle at some point during this summer, most probably sust250 at 500mg pw for 8 weeks. Im still undecided if I will combine it with the igf/dht cycle. If I were to do it i would start the igf and dht at about week 2 of my cycle so that I can get maximum benefit from having a shitload of testosterone floating around my system. I would then follow the cycle up with regular pct.

The only thing im not sure of with this is that by doing test and dht at the same time, i may put my prostate and hairline in a bit of danger. This is something I have to consider very seriously. I know im not prone to natural hairloss, but with this amount of extra dht I may change things for the worse.

This will all be combined with going to the gym 5x per week and a 3 hour clamping session before bed.

I am also going to document this properly with before and after photos and measurments so that anyone else considering this can be totally sure if this will work or not. Decent before and after photos are a luxury that we a very rarely given in the PE world, I cant imagine why.

[Bigbadbison]

This thread has gone very quiet, so ill chip in to liven the thread up a bit.
I Have spent the last few days trying to locate a source of DHT cream that is cheaper that the all saints clinic stuff. Having a real tough time tho. If I cant find any illl have to be resigned to paying £100 for 2 tubes. Combined with getting my IGF and steroid cycles together, this is gonna cost me a packet.

Im probably going to run 1000mcg of IGF1-lr3 over 25 days aswell as dht. Im expecting that 2 tubes of dht will last longer than the igf so i will continue to run that untill i run out. If this is not combined with the steroid cycle i will run a course of clomid and tribulus at the same time to boost my natural test levels slightly.

I am also going to be doing a steroid cycle at some point during this summer, most probably sust250 at 500mg pw for 8 weeks. Im still undecided if I will combine it with the igf/dht cycle. If I were to do it i would start the igf and dht at about week 2 of my cycle so that I can get maximum benefit from having a shitload of testosterone floating around my system. I would then follow the cycle up with regular pct.

The only thing im not sure of with this is that by doing test and dht at the same time, i may put my prostate and hairline in a bit of danger. This is something I have to consider very seriously. I know im not prone to natural hairloss, but with this amount of extra dht I may change things for the worse.

This will all be combined with going to the gym 5x per week and a 3 hour clamping session before bed.

I am also going to document this properly with before and after photos and measurments so that anyone else considering this can be totally sure if this will work or not. Decent before and after photos are a luxury that we a very rarely given in the PE world, I cant imagine why.

Hey Zol,
Nice post. Let us know if you can find it cheeper. I can't. Do you really want to try all of that at once. Why not just do what Girthius is doing. He is getting great results. Why do more than you might need to?

[Girthius]

Im probably going to run 1000mcg of IGF1-lR3

Hey Zol! Glad you have joined in on our little experiment! I know it sucks on buying the DHT from Allsaints, but the only other option would be to go to France for the day, and pick some up at any pharmacy, as it's sold over the counter there! I think it sells for roughly 8 Euros per tube!

Do you get you IGF in the UK? Also is it injectable or what? I can't seem to find any at all!I am also looking for some Papaverine,PGE1, Phentolamine!I will be ordering some NO2 very shortly, and adding it to my experiment!Keep us posted on what you experience from your methods!

[Zol]

Hey Zol! Glad you have joined in on our little experiment! I know it sucks on buying the DHT from Allsaints, but the only other option would be to go to France for the day, and pick some up at any pharmacy, as it's sold over the counter there! I think it sells for roughly 8 Euros per tube!

Do you get you IGF in the UK? Also is it injectable or what? I can't seem to find any at all!I am also looking for some Papaverine,PGE1, Phentolamine!I will be ordering some NO2 very shortly, and adding it to my experiment!Keep us posted on what you experience from your methods!


I have been searching for a solid month or so for a UK source of IGF and I have come up with precisely nothing. I am now resigned to the fact that If I want it, It will have to come from the states. They say it is really delicate and doesnt travel very well, but Im going to take the risk on it because its seems like the only way. I wont post the source here but if you want it I can PM you.

Btw, whats your progress on the dht, how is it going?

[Zol]

Hey Zol,
Nice post. Let us know if you can find it cheeper. I can't. Do you really want to try all of that at once. Why not just do what Girthius is doing. He is getting great results. Why do more than you might need to?

I had already decided to do a steroid cycle and igf this summer because I bodybuild. Now that I have decided to do the dht, its seems logical to drop it in there with the other stuff in order to get absolute maximum benefit.
Think about it. With massive amounts of test, igf and dht all in the system at once, that is about as close to getting you body in the same chemical state as puberty as possible. If this doesnt cause natural growth, nothing will.

[Supra]

Zol knows his shit guys, learn from him! I sure as hell have

[Bigbadbison]

I had already decided to do a steroid cycle and igf this summer because I bodybuild. Now that I have decided to do the dht, its seems logical to drop it in there with the other stuff in order to get absolute maximum benefit.
Think about it. With massive amounts of test, igf and dht all in the system at once, that is about as close to getting you body in the same chemical state as puberty as possible. If this doesnt cause natural growth, nothing will.

I am not chemist but I just thought of something. Testoterone can be converted to DHT and it can also be converted to estrogens. You body has a natural equilibrium. Maybe, it you were to take test and DHT at the same time, more test would become estrogen then with out the extra DHT and you might end up with the same problems Sup worked so hard to fix.
IOW, because less test gets converted to DHT, it might be like being on a whole lot of test and the estrogen production problems assoicated with it.

Or, I might have no clue what I am talking about. Either way, I thought I would throw it out there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[philadelph]

I am not chemist but I just thought of something. Testoterone can be converted to DHT and it can also be converted to estrogens. You body has a natural equilibrium. Maybe, it you were to take test and DHT at the same time, more test would become estrogen then with out the extra DHT and you might end up with the same problems Sup worked so hard to fix.
IOW, because less test gets converted to DHT, it might be like being on a whole lot of test and the estrogen production problems assoicated with it.

Or, I might have no clue what I am talking about. Either way, I thought I would throw it out there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

DHT acts as an anti-estrogen. Even though you are putting excess DHT in the system, you still have the 5 alpha reductase which converts testosterone to DHT. I don't think estrogen will be an issue. And if Zol knows his shit, he will have an anti-e on hand just in case.

[Bigbadbison]

DHT acts as an anti-estrogen. Even though you are putting excess DHT in the system, you still have the 5 alpha reductase which converts testosterone to DHT. I don't think estrogen will be an issue. And if Zol knows his shit, he will have an anti-e on hand just in case.

OK, I just wanted to throw that out. Zol, I look forward to hearing your results. I am saving up for the DHT myself. Even if I don't get permenant gains, I am looking forward to the rock hard erections and other benifits of DHT. I wish this stuff was not so expensive.

[Zol]

Dont worry guys, It goes without saying that I will have my nolvadex on hand in case any estrogen issues pop up. I have never had any problems before as luckily im not prone to gyno. DHT cream is actually a little known way of treating gynocomastia so I should be ok.

I think this would probably be a good time to give a little warning to anyone thinking of doing something like this. I dont know at what level everyones knowledge is on this subject, so I apologise in advance if this in any way sounds patronising. I just want to look out for all you guys.

----------------------Zol's Public Health Warning--------------------------

If you are thinking about taking any kind of steroid or doing any kind of hormone therapy I STRONGLY suggest you do a serious amount of research on the subject before you do anything else. (Im talking months and months, not an evening or a weekend) I cannot stress this enough. In the case of anabolic steroids (not so much with DHT) I would recommend you also have at least a few years of good natural training under you belt before you start. Hormones are very powerfull things, and are not to be taken lightly. If not they are not used properly and no precautions are made you can do some very nasty things to yourself.
IGF and HGH also have their issues and can cause you to become disfigured if abused, do thorough research and be carefull and you will be ok.

In the case of DHT. It is non-aromatising so you dont have to worry about gyno. It does have an effect on your prostate and hairline. So again, be carefull and do your research.

----------------------Zol's Public Health Warning--------------------------


If anyone has any questions or queries on this subject or anything in this field, feel free to pm me anytime. Im always happy to help

[Zol]

By the way, do we have anyone who posts regularly here from France. If we caould get some kind of hook up for the cheap DHT that would be amazing. If anyone knows someone let us know.

[Supra]

Talk to girthius

[Girthius]

I wish I had a link in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quijjiboo]

Zol 3 hours of clamping how are you going to do that??

[Supra]

With Cialis!

[Girthius]

With Cialis! I would be interested in seeing the effects of Cialis and NO2 together!!

[Zol]

My Andractim arrived today. 2 Shiney new tubes. They are actually bigger than I thought they would be. Already they are screaming out to me "try me, try me". But I must be strong, i must resist. I am on a low carb cutting diet at the moment and I know that it would be an utter waste to use it now.

Just thought id let you know and also to keep the thread going.

Girtius. Anything new to report?

[Bigbadbison]

My Andractim arrived today. 2 Shiney new tubes. They are actually bigger than I thought they would be. Already they are screaming out to me "try me, try me". But I must be strong, i must resist. I am on a low carb cutting diet at the moment and I know that it would be an utter waste to use it now.

Just thought id let you know and also to keep the thread going.

Girtius. Anything new to report?

OK, dumb Bison question time. How do carbs factor in?

[Dagger]

Would think Zol is intending to use DHT for his PE and as an anabolic and since hes 'cutting' he wont grow much muscle even with DHT.

[Zol]

OK, dumb Bison question time. How do carbs factor in?


Would think Zol is intending to use DHT for his PE and as an anabolic and since hes 'cutting' he wont grow much muscle even with DHT.



Thats part of it. Your body needs to be running on carbs to build new muscle. When taking in only protein and fats you body is using the fat for fuel and the protein for repair. There is nothing there for your body to go that bit further and do some growing. Its VERY difficult to put on any muscle on a low carb diet. Im thinking this will also apply to growing new penis cells. I want my experiment to be under optimal conditions. Although, I think I may drop the igf out of the equation as im getting pretty skint and I dont feel that happy having to get it shipped over from the states.

A ball busting session at the gym everyday should be enough to naturally release the GH that is required to compliment the DHT. From my research I have found that GH or IGF does not play that big a factor in penis growth compared to DHT.

[Bigbadbison]

Thats part of it. Your body needs to be running on carbs to build new muscle. When taking in only protein and fats you body is using the fat for fuel and the protein for repair. There is nothing there for your body to go that bit further and do some growing. Its VERY difficult to put on any muscle on a low carb diet. Im thinking this will also apply to growing new penis cells. I want my experiment to be under optimal conditions. Although, I think I may drop the igf out of the equation as im getting pretty skint and I dont feel that happy having to get it shipped over from the states.

A ball busting session at the gym everyday should be enough to naturally release the GH that is required to compliment the DHT. From my research I have found that GH or IGF does not play that big a factor in penis growth compared to DHT.

That makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

[Supra]

ok we need to get this going, do we have a plan on what we are gonna use, products, workout plan and drugs?

[Zol]

Is a question for me or people in general?

[Stunna]

I was thinking about joining your experiment with the DHT but was wondering, I am only 18 years old and not sure if I could damage some of my "natural" gains left if there are any. Anyone have an idea?

[Zol]

I dont think you can damage natural gains with dht alone, although it will decreas your natural test levels slightly. You can damage your hairline and enlarge your prostate tho, so be carefull.

If I were you I would wait a little bit untill me and girthius has anything to report.
I wont be doing mine for a while yet as I am taking part in a medical trial during the summer to make some money, They test you for all sorts before you start so Ill have to wait untill thats finished.

I really want to hear from girtius on this subject but he hasnt answered.

Girthius. How is the dht coming along?

[DC3]

Wow this is a nice post. As of right now I take NO2 and if I can find a new link to Cialis or Viagra at a good price without a doctor's permisison I will combine the two to see the effect. As far as DHT is concerned I don't think that will be beneficial for me because I'm unfortunately starting to lose hair :( and I take propecia so I don't know how well they will effect each other. On the bottle it say that sex drive it only effected in about 2% of males or something like that but I have not noticed a decrease in sex drive so I am good there. For IGF you have to inject that into your penis right?? Wooh!! If so I cannot see myself sticking anything sharp in my penis or letting anything sharp near it :p If there are alternatives then I may try that. Today I tried an extended ballooning/edgeing session with my routine. I'm trying out a modified version of the newb routine:

7 min Warmup
3 min stretching in all directions
15 min Jelq (palm down)
2-15 Sec uli
3 min Stretching in all directions
1-15 sec Uli

Then I did ballooning/edgeing for 1 hr 35 min with 2 sets of 15 Sec Ulis every 20 minutes. I'm open for any suggestions/critiques/help with anything I have said. Oh yea, I will be obtaining a ROP also so i can get that HIGH Testosterone boost. Lets see... ROP, NO2, Cialis or Viagra.. That Should push anyone through the roof - then combine that with DHT + IGF...

[Supra]

Is a question for me or people in general?


For you and girthius when are we gonna do this?

[Zol]

Patience my friend. Im not sure about girtius because he doesnt seem to be around this thread much these days. I thought he had started. As for me, I am going to start this roughly around mid july. I have recently made my first decent PE gain for a while so Im not in a hurry, also I am cutting hard right now and would be simply wasting all the gear If i started now. Im trying to get down to around 8% bf before I do my next bulker and my dht combo.

What are your plans mate?

[Girthius]

I'm still here!! I just cant get any email notifications that someone has posted!!As of now, I am using the DHT twice a week, I have also received my NO2, 2 days ago! I take 2 tablets, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening!After only 2 days taken the NO2, I feel very good!! I feel like I'm wired to the max!! The orgasms that I experience now, are the best I have ever had period!!!!!!! One such orgasm nearly made me pass out!! My morning routine is messed up though, as I have extremely hard morning wood!! It takes about 20-30 minutes before it goes down, so as to allow me to stretch etc. My ROP is hard to put on now, and my Jes- Extender just want fit around my base! I still believe that in order for this to be really effective(best results), I need to have an erection for at least 2 hours, if not more! I'm looking into a tri-mix(injectable) to acquire the 2-4 hour erection. If I can't get this, then I will get some cailis or Viagra.

As for hair loss, I have not experienced any acceleration in this area. To combat the DHT, I use a topical lotion for the scalp, and also take 1 capsule a day for prostrate, both of these are composed of saw palmetto.

[Zol]

I'm still here!! I just cant get any email notifications that someone has posted!!As of now, I am using the DHT twice a week, I have also received my NO2, 2 days ago! I take 2 tablets, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening!After only 2 days taken the NO2, I feel very good!! I feel like I'm wired to the max!! The orgasms that I experience now, are the best I have ever had period!!!!!!! One such orgasm nearly made me pass out!! My morning routine is messed up though, as I have extremely hard morning wood!! It takes about 20-30 minutes before it goes down, so as to allow me to stretch etc. My ROP is hard to put on now, and my Jes- Extender just want fit around my base! I still believe that in order for this to be really effective(best results), I need to have an erection for at least 2 hours, if not more! I'm looking into a tri-mix(injectable) to acquire the 2-4 hour erection. If I can't get this, then I will get some cailis or Viagra.

As for hair loss, I have not experienced any acceleration in this area. To combat the DHT, I use a topical lotion for the scalp, and also take 1 capsule a day for prostrate, both of these are composed of saw palmetto.

Cool. Would you say you have made gains from the dht? If so what kind of figures are we talking?

[Girthius]

Cool. Would you say you have made gains from the dht? If so what kind of figures are we talking?

I feel I have gained some in length, and girth, since taking the DHT! I have gone from 9" to 9.5" BPEL and from 6.5" to 7ish in girth (base)! Also my ejectulation volume is way up, and the orgasm intensity is heaven!!!

I am still not satisfied with my routine yet, as there are a couple things that I really need, to make this complete! Cialis or tri-mix!!!!!! I feel you must have an erection for at least 2-4 hours, to really get that freak cock, the routine that I am on now will give results, but If I add the other drugs, this will speed the process up considerably!!I have also ordered some colegen capsules! These will help to promote new growth in the connective tissue.

[Zol]

Holy Cr&p! You could beat someone to death with that thing. Good going man

[Girthius]

Holy Cr&p! You could beat someone to death with that thing. Good going man

Thanks Zol!! Even though the numbers look good, I'm afraid 2.5 of that is fat pad!!!It would be great if I had your knowledge in bodybuilding!!!

[Girthius]

In the next few days I will be adding a new ingredient into my arsenal! I will be taking pure collagen( 2 capsules before bed, every night!)The collagen is supposed to help rebuild broken down connective tissue, and promote new cell growth. I feel that since my ligs probably have many micro tears, and my tunica has been over stretched lately, it could use some help in the cell regrowth department! It will do this anyway on it's own, but with the pure collagen, this should speed up the process, for new growth! Below is a small list of what pure collagen can do for connective tissue!

Connective tissue consists of tendons, ligaments, muscles and cartilage and is the supportive structure of all joints.

1.Collagen is the most abundant structural protein in all connective tissue.
2.Collagen therefore has a key role to play in such disorders as arthritis and musculo-skeletal injuries.
3.Pure-Col naturally contains both glucosamine and chondroitin and can therefore help repair, regenerate and renew connective tissue.

[randolf]

Good idea to try the collagen girthius. I wonder if it is also in food we eat, or if the body manufactures it from base proteins.

I am going to adding no2 as well soon, when I start working. It sounds like exactly what we want, expanding out the blood vessels. As well as andactrim of course which I will get first.

Btw good news I just got my viagra in! I plan on taking 200 m/grams a day. Two doses of 100 m/grams. One during the day, and one before bed. Once I get a scale I will keep upping the dosage from maybe 25 m/grams to see what it takes to make a mega erection that lasts. Then take that amount a few times a day. Or possibly to keep it going 25 m/grams or 50 m/grams every 30 minutes for a few hours. That 3 stack sounds very interesting but me personally I wouldn't want to inject into my penis. Even injecting into my body I would be scared but I might do it at that point.

For my workout I am now doing just 30 minutes of jelqing 5 days a week. I was doing more before but I kept finding excuses to not workout, so for me at most 5 days a week is better and shorter duration.

Btw I was reading tribulus really increases dht! I always noticed when I took it before that my sex drive was waaaay up. Now I am thinking that the higher dht especialy brought that. Also I believe dht is the key ingredient to penis growth. I mean mass stretching it out/putting pressure on the penis certainly causes the body to want to grow it. But I believe it is the dht that actualy grows it along with other compounds like igf, but especialy dht.

I am going to be adding tribulus as well when I start working. Basicaly I will personally just start using things as I can afford them and as they arrive to my place. I dont' think I'll do igf though, unless other have insane results.

I also have the same goals as girthius going for a freakily big penis. The same one supra wants in that picture he posted a while back.

[Sinbad]

Guys, I need help. Can anybody help me out there

[randolf]

Guys, I need help. Can anybody help me out there

I can try, what do you need help with?

[Dagger]

The 'Site-Specific Topical Carrier Complex' from www.blackstarlabs.com, is it for real? I mean, if I mixed 1 gram pure DHT in it, and applied it(a few mgs) to my penis, would it only work there? Or just some market ploy to get me to buy the stuff?

[randolf]

The 'Site-Specific Topical Carrier Complex' from www.blackstarlabs.com, is it for real? I mean, if I mixed 1 gram pure DHT in it, and applied it(a few mgs) to my penis, would it only work there? Or just some market ploy to get me to buy the stuff?

dagger have you found anywhere you can get pure dht bulk from?

[Dagger]

Haven`t really looked much into it. There are chinese sources selling it, question is whats their minimum quantity.

[Zol]

The 'Site-Specific Topical Carrier Complex' from www.blackstarlabs.com, is it for real? I mean, if I mixed 1 gram pure DHT in it, and applied it(a few mgs) to my penis, would it only work there? Or just some market ploy to get me to buy the stuff?

Im not sure I like the idea of homemade stuff. Id rather buy it. Even if it costs a little more, you know its totally safe and in the quantities you want. Homebrew sounds a little dodgy. Especially when we are messing with HORMONES here.

[Supra]

I am really sorry I have not been able to keep up with this thread, I will be getting back into it very soon, The Marines are keeping me really busy, you guys are doing some great stuff on here though, keep it up.

[golarge]

Anyone use this site for DHT?
http://www.orderdihydrotestosterone.com/

[GIZ MASTER ZERO]

I've been lurking around for a while and have been thinking about signing up as a guinea. At first I won't be able to afford IGF-1 but I would like to try the DHT cream and have a few quick questions.

I've read you can make your own DHT cream but since I live in the U.S. I'll need to use a pre-curser to DHT.
What Pre-curser do I use and where can I get it?

Also I tke Flax seed oil 3 times a day, it has more of the omega fatty acids than fish oil.
Do you think this will be enough for PGE-1 levels or should I plan on buying some down the road?

What about taking the spray form of IGF-1? How about Velvet Deer Antler? Are these good alternitives to the injectable form of IGF-1?

Does anybody know how much the tri-mix costs from http://www.kronospharmacy.com/Conte...cts_triple.aspx
can a regular joe even buy it from them?

My plan is to take viagra before workouts along with rubbing DHT cream.
During the day I will take my usaual supps like ZMA(increaces Test levels), ECA Stack(ephdrine, caffine, asprian helps blood flow and fat loss), Flax seed oil(can increase PGE-1 levels), Calcium, Vitamin C(helps muscles heal faster), A multi-vitamin, Nuerogen, and of course my Whey Protein.
I also plan to use an ADS and wear a ROP

Feedback and answers would be great!
Thanks

[MustBeDreaming]

Ok out of all this stuff you guys have been talking about using and some are using. How would these end up effecting your nervous system, your nerve sensories in your penis. You of course don't want to burn them out, I don't know if this is the reasons some guys that get prioporism (whatever you call it) end up having a hard time getting an erection later on.
I know for me, I would really love to regain feeling back in my head from years of PE (it does happen and sneak up on you). Does anyone know of what could help the penis to become sensitive again and restore lost feeling?

Supra
Don't buy FNS, it's a waste unless your a balding old lady. The real ingredient that made the stuff popular was never allowed to be used, I believe they ended up using cinnimun extract. The stuff is also sticky and smells.

Propecia;
Careful with just going on this stuff, look up hair loss forums on the web, there are a lot of guys that lost hair from it and didn't grow back. This happened to me, 4 months on and it deminished my hairline and was shedding 4 times as much hair. I started losing more right away. This basically happens to some people because it can be a shock to the system. Throwing your hair into the tellegan phase. It took another 4 months after being on for the shedding to slow down. That being said about Propecia, consider thinking that other drugs and hormones and freak/shock/stress your body out.

[Supra]

Yea it does smell man, I bought some a long time ago.

Propecia makes you loose hair, how is that possible?

[BigCatLion]

Okay, where can I find the HGH and/or the IGF-1? Are the HGH enhancers worth anything? Such as the pills/powder kind. I would love to begin taking HGH and I am not sure where to start. I understand the real stuff in shot form is quite expensive. What kind of price range are we talking about? I have done some searches and there are 1000s of products.

[GIZ MASTER ZERO]

I've not read anything in this thread that says do not use Test cream in place of DHT cream.
So here is my question, can I use 1,(5alpha)-Androstene-3-one, 17-tetrahydropyranyl (THD)
I found this product here http://discountanabolics.com/thestore/prods/3506.html

Know I don't know if my thinking is correct here but doesn't TEST convert into DHT.
If so would this prodcut be a viable solution to those of us in the states?

[MustBeDreaming]

Could the DHT cream help repair sensitivity in the penis and help build back the sensory nerves?

if not is there anything that would?

[Zol]

I've not read anything in this thread that says do not use Test cream in place of DHT cream.
So here is my question, can I use 1,(5alpha)-Androstene-3-one, 17-tetrahydropyranyl (THD)
I found this product here http://discountanabolics.com/thestore/prods/3506.html

Know I don't know if my thinking is correct here but doesn't TEST convert into DHT.
If so would this prodcut be a viable solution to those of us in the states?


I dont think this will be effective at all. The reason DHT cream is to be used on the penis is that it is going directly into the penis where there are receptors which will then react and multiply.
Pro hormones are a total waste of time imho. especially for this sort of thing. You will only get a fraction if any at all of the effects you want as only a part of the test will convert to dht while in your body and and the dht will then attatch to whatver receptor it can find. That means you will be getting no real focus on the receptors you want, which is the penis ones.

[Zol]

Could the DHT cream help repair sensitivity in the penis and help build back the sensory nerves?

if not is there anything that would?

I dont think it would mate. I think the best thing for that would be leaving of the PE and letting it rest for a while. Have you spoken to you doctor about it?

[yamaha12]

girthious--

Hey bro

how much have your measurements increased up to this point?

I am gonna stack DHT/IGF-1LR3/No2/Creatine very soon, & was looking for some insider feedback.

I tried 3 times to PM you, but am having problems for some reason.

Any feedback is appreciated

Thanx

[Girthius]

Sorry for the delay yamaha12! As for gains from the DHT, I feel that I have gained some from it, but to be honest, I have not realy pushed it yet, as I need some cialis or tri-mix to create an ongoing erection. Once I can get one of these items, I will be able to push my limits to the max. As of now I only use the DHT 2-3 times a week. My length has gone from 9 to 9.5(bpel), and my girth has gone from 6.5 to 7ish(base)

I feel that major gains can be made, but you really need to have several things, before such gains can be made.My morning wood is very, very, good! It can last many hours, and my sensitivity is fantastic, not to mention my orgasms!!

As for hair loss, no more than usual. I think that the DHT is dam good, but you really need to have something that will prolong your erection, like cialis, viagra, or tri-mix. I have also started applying the gel before bed, because it is during sleep that many hormones are active, and helping the body repair itself, and grow. This is why men have morning wood! It is due to the large amount of DHT that has been produced during sleep. I have always had morning wood, but since I have been applying the gel before bed, I have been having really great morning wood! Erections that last for 2-4 hours!

Also once I have orgasmed, the erection remains for some 20-30 minutes, rock hard, with out touching it! Sometimes if I do wake up in the early hours, and I have some good hard wood going, I try to capitalize on it, and do some DLD bends, and some good hard squeezes, then I drift off back to sleep.

[MustBeDreaming]

Better sensitivity, Nice!

girthius, where did you get a hold of the DHT gel, I want to make sure I get the right stuff?

[Dagger]

Girthius: So, you have had no shrinkage of your testicles while using it or semen turning transparent? Sounds like its better than Testosterone Replacement Therapy to boost libido if that's the case.

How were your erections before you started taking it? In duration I mean.

Anyway, isn't it sort of embarrassing to sport a 2-4 hour long erection? lol

[Girthius]

Girthius: So, you have had no shrinkage of your testicles while using it or semen turning transparent? Sounds like its better than Testosterone Replacement Therapy to boost libido if that's the case.

How were your erections before you started taking it? In duration I mean.

Anyway, isn't it sort of embarrassing to sport a 2-4 hour long erection? lol

Dagger, I have not experienced any shrinkage of my balls, nor semen transparency! Before my erections were ok, but now they are almost freakish! As I said they happen mostly in the early morning hours(1-6 am, I think this is normal for most guys) so as I live on my own, this is not a problem! However if I have my girl over for the night, well it works well for me, as she knows what to do with this problem(blessing) with extreme morning wood!

[yamaha11]

Dagger, I have not experienced any shrinkage of my balls, nor semen transparency! Before my erections were ok, but now they are almost freakish! As I said they happen mostly in the early morning hours(1-6 am, I think this is normal for most guys) so as I live on my own, this is not a problem! However if I have my girl over for the night, well it works well for me, as she knows what to do with this problem(blessing) with extreme morning wood!


you mentioned that the DHT actually "enlarged" your balls, does this still hold true?

How has your sex drive been effected?

[Girthius]

Yamaha11, since I have began using the DHT, my ball size, and girth, and length have increased some. The biggest increase was in girth, followed by length, then ball size! I have a difficult time now putting on my ROP, even when I do get it on, it has come off several times! I will have to resize it I guess!

As for sex drive, I have always been highly sexed, but now it is almost uncontrolable! All I think about now is sex, sex,sex! It has got to the point that I can not concentrate on the many projects that need to be undertaken! The good side to this, is that by increasing my sex drive even more, this has made me more bolder to approach women, kinda like a vampire is drawn to blood, and needs his fill every night! I find myself talking to more women now, and being very daring and bold in what I do and say to them! It's a good feeling, and I think that they can tell as well! It gives you a great sexual confidence in my opinion!

[yamaha11]

Yamaha11, since I have began using the DHT, my ball size, and girth, and length have increased some. The biggest increase was in girth, followed by length, then ball size! I have a difficult time now putting on my ROP, even when I do get it on, it has come off several times! I will have to resize it I guess!

As for sex drive, I have always been highly sexed, but now it is almost uncontrolable! All I think about now is sex, sex,sex! It has got to the point that I can not concentrate on the many projects that need to be undertaken! The good side to this, is that by increasing my sex drive even more, this has made me more bolder to approach women, kinda like a vampire is drawn to blood, and needs his fill every night! I find myself talking to more women now, and being very daring and bold in what I do and say to them! It's a good feeling, and I think that they can tell as well! It gives you a great sexual confidence in my opinion!


I ordered two tubes of DHT (Andictum) from ALL Saints Clinic. I live in California though, so i dont know how long it will take to reach me.

I bought 10 pills of 20mg cialis (Fuckin' expinsive!) they will be here on tuesday.

Ive got a month supply of IGF1-1LR3 comming next week also.


i can wait until i start my cycle. hehe



I Tried to find ANYWHERE that sold the Tri-Mix to the general public, but the only place you can get it is through compounding pharmacies, & you must be a doctor with a business liscence to get it. I did find "Caverject" which is popular in europe. But it only cantains one of the three ingredients.


Have you had any luck finding the tri-mix?

[fiddler]

any updates on this guys?

fiddler

[magnumforce]

Just to let you know guys that I'm close to 10 by 8. My protocol worked better than expected. Ask Supra about details cause as you noticed I no longer have time to post.
Good luck with your gains guys.

[Supra]

You ass!! I cant belive you are leaving without telling me how!!! Son of a bitch!

[Girthius]

Perhaps he has gone to market it and make a million!!! ;)

[stillwantmore]

Well, as they say "proof is in the pudding". I wont believe it until I see the pudding!

[stillwantmore]

So, yea I've yet to see any conclusive results posted by anyone yet. Just very vague replies so far. Anyone made gains???

[Girthius]

Well guys! I am afraid that even though the answer to what caused the growth in Magnum is in this vast thread, we are none the wiser!!! He told me that the drugs needed, were located in this thread, but which ones??? Also he used a precise formulation, there again which drugs, and how much do you use for the formulation! I don't think that we will be able to get a detailed account of what he did, for the fact that if he has discovered a sure method, this would have a huge impact on PE, and could be very lucrative!

[Dagger]

Is magnumforce really serious about this? If so, sounds like he is after making a 'few' bucks. He needs some more test subjects for that to see that it's not just a fluke *Wink* *Wink*

[Dagger]

Posted by magnumforce:

Good news guys, IGF-1 promotes penile growth! IDF1-1 along with DHT is the key to growth.

Hmm, wonder if this can be it? IGF-1 and DHT(Use andractim maybe?)

[stillwantmore]

No he was not serious. This was a big scam to tug at everyone's emotional strings. If he WERE serious, he would have posted IN DETAIL the exact methods he used.

[Supra]

Were Is This Guy

[Girthius]

Well guys, it's time to get this post moving again!! So Magnumforce has left!! So lets move on!! Like he said, the ingredients to his success are within this thread!! He did have a big advantage, as he worked in a lab, and could get all of the drugs that he needed, but in saying that, all he has done is possibly used a few drugs, that are used in the treatment of ED (erectal dysfunction) coupled with DHT, and IGF 1.On top of this he has used ballooning, edging while on the drugs, and also did manual stretches on the off days that he did not use the drugs.I know that we can produce the same results, it will take a little effort on our part, to discover what to use etc.! I also believe that his path to success is not the only path! Also when we do manage to get the right formulation for real growth, we should share our findings, and also post a picture to support our claims, as their are many skeptics!!So who's in on this?

[Jason1]

I'm in.

[Girthius]

Good! I will start putting together a list of what was mentioned in this thread and others, so that we can make a plan of attack! We will sus this out, no probs!! What you reckon Supra?

[randolf]

I'm with you girthius. I will use whatever looks promising. Although at the moment I only have viagra, and at least for about a month I won't be able to afford other things. As soon as I can I will be adding them though. Nonetheless I can track my gains taking large amounts of viagra for the next month.. at minimum.

[Jason1]

We have to figure this out.

[Girthius]

Great, now we have Randolf as well!! Good to hear from ya!! Now where is Supra(that pineapple poker)?

[Girthius]

Ok lets get started! As you know there have been a few different drugs listed in this thread, that could be used in creating a controlled priapism/puberty, which are excellent conditions for growth.We know that DHT(gel) is an important part of this equation, and also IGF-1, both of which are growth hormones. So we will hold on to those 2. Now the important part is how to maintain an erection for 2-4 hours?The cheapest way with out injections would be to use Viagra, or cialis. I think these would work for at least 1 hour, but that's just a guess! Have any of you experienced longer erections like 2-3 hours with this stuff?

No2 or L-Argine would also be a possibility as well, as it increases blood flow, and helps to expand the blood vessels internaly! The problem is maintaining a good hard erection for 2-4 hours, if viagra/cialis can't deliver, we may have to switch to a tri mix (PGE1, Paperverine, Phentolamine, which is an injectable mix) or use a couple of these with the viagra/cialis.Now the problem with the the ingredients of the tri mix is that only one of them I have seen, comes in the form of capsules(paperverine) The other 2 (PGE1 asnd Phentolamine) I have only seen in injectable form.It would be great to get around injecting, but perhaps that is how Magnumforce did it??? Your thoughts?

[Dagger]

I somehow doubt that you need to keep an erection for 2-4 hours to see results, might give better results though.

Another thing is, I dont see us needing more than 2 compounds. I mean, 2 compounds is one thing as it might be some double action that does the trick(DHT and igf possibly?). Any compounds other than the 2 first(not necessarily DHT and igf) I think is just icing on the cake.

Might be wrong though...

[Dagger]

Addition to last post(damn 10 minute limit!):

Reason for this is, since magnumforce has reached 10x8(or so he says), it's sounds like he has grown by huge amounts, unless he was huge from the get go. For this you really need some radical technique imo(read: chemical compounds that affect growth somehow). And the prime candidates are DHT and IGF-1(LR3 or normal?)

Quote from magnumforce:

Good news guys, IGF-1 promotes penile growth! IDF1-1 along with DHT is the key to growth.
My experiments carried on rabbits prove it. I'll post the definitive results when I've time and hope to conduct a very serious large-scale study on the same subject using 2 different animal models. I'm trying to get funds from a pharmaceutical company. I've convinced it it should revolutionized penile augmentation business and stop the mutilating surgical procedures. Who said again on this board I should get the Nobel Prize?

Looks like he experimented on himself rofl

One problem though is that yamaha12 have been using these compounds and havent heard anything from him yet about how it went.

[Girthius]

Perhaps you are correct in your thinking, Maybe all we need is the DHT, IGF-1, and some viagra/cialis. The next question is:Did he have all this in liquid form, and mix the lot? I know you can get IGF-1, and Cialis in liquid form, but what about DHT? The other way would be take a Viagra/cialis, rub some DHT gel on the erection, and take some IGF-1.But I have never seen pure IGF-1 in the form of capsules, and besides, Supra said that injecting it was the only way to get the best results.So it may be that he used all 3 in liguid form and mixed the lot, and injected straight into the penis. Also the injection site may be very important in this equation.

[kausion_420]

Maybe he injected Cialis and IGF and then rubbed the DHT on the point of injection as well as on the rest of the shaft.

I aint injecting shit into my dick though.

[Girthius]

Maybe he injected Cialis and IGF and then rubbed the DHT on the point of injection as well as on the rest of the shaft.

I aint injecting shit into my dick though.

Perhaps this is the way to go? I think also that I would take some L-argine with this and stack the cialis with some Paperverine so as to increase the erection intensity. I agree that injecting can be very daunting, but I look at it as a last resort, which I will do, if all else fails.

[Supra]

I think that increasing the dosages of IGF from 20mcg's to 80 might be worth while. Ill let yall know how it goes.

[Girthius]

I think that increasing the dosages of IGF from 20mcg's to 80 might be worth while. Ill let yall know how it goes.
You have that with you in Hawaii?

[Supra]

You have that with you in Hawaii?


Damn right!

[kausion_420]

Just make sure you don't injure your willie while you are supposed to be protecting the USA.