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  1. #81
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    It is great that you are keeping such a good record of all of this, it will be so valuable for everyone in the future.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Sorry for the delay in response... lazy weekend...

    Day 13 of Phase 2:

    Did a 20 minute Bathmate workout at 140-145 mm. Felt a little more comfortable then the higher intensity, shorter duration workouts. Followed up with 4 minutes jelqing.

    Day 14 of Phase 2:

    Did 2 Bathmate workouts: 1 for 11 minutes at 150-155 mm and the other for 15 minutes at 150-155 mm. 1st was followed up with 5 minutes of jelqing then 2.5 gram DHT. 2nd was followed up with 20 minute jelq/clamp/erect bend combo then 2.5 grams DHT.

    Day 1 of Decon 2:

    This is the official end of Phase 2 as I am now on my 2nd DHT decon break. Did a 20 minute Bathmate workout at 135-140 mm. With day after day of Bathmate workouts, I fear I may be overtraining a bit. I am worried that my skin might be getting too much of a workout relative to my penile tissues (I know I know, fuck the life of a hard gainer, huh?)

    Day 2 of Decon 2 (today):

    Today I am taking another day off from all activity just to be safe. Moving forward, during this decon break, I plan on pumping daily, however, significantly reducing the intensity of "off" days. Specifically, I will train high intensity every other day (ideally with only 1 - 150-160 mm - 15-20 minute Bathmate session) + 20-25 minute jelq/clamp/erect bend combo. The days in between, I will do a short, low intensity Bathmate session at 125-130 mm for 10 minutes followed by 2-4 minute jelq (just for circulation restoration).

    Signs of Overtraining:

    Looking back on the beginning, I was able to pump at 160-165 mm fairly comfortably. As it is now, 150 mm feels a little intense and anything above feels uncomfortable. Typically, my flaccid hang seems slightly above normal and is warm to the touch. My nocturnal erections are hard to measure as I rarely wake up with strong wood (mostly I wake up with sub-chub which is like a 5 on a scale of 10 for erections). Erections during sex are fine and are scoring an 8-9 on a scale of 10.

    Considering the aforementioned PIs combined, I a believe I am on the cusp of overtraining. If anyone has feedback about Bathmate workouts or has an interpretation of my PIs, your comments are most welcomed!

  3. #83
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Ok... today I am really starting to notice that my skin is taking a beating... I am noticing more stretch marks and my foreskin is getting more discolored. Does anyone have any topical ointments to recommend? MSM/DMSO? I hate the thought of causing permanent damage to my skin AND still not solidifying any gains yet... :(

  4. #84
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    I've had good success with emu oil, it has all kinds of great skin benefits, just google it. It's a bit expensive, but I use so little of it even when I put a nice coat over my whole unit, that it lasts a long time.

    Dford

  5. #85
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Already have it... works ok for penis, great for skin in general. Unfortunately, it is supposedly a DHT inhibitor...

  6. #86
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    I started getting some discoloration to the point my wife noticed. I bought some "fade" cream at Walgreens for a $5. The active ingrediant was hydroquinolone 2%(SP?). It worked after a couple of weeks of continuous use. It also had some other skin conditioning stuff (vit E, aloe, etc). It worked really good esp after an intense workout. My skin seemed to be healthier with less of a damaged feeling, too.

  7. #87
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    (Yesterday) Day 3 of Decon 2:

    Did a 10 minute Bathmate workout at 125-130 mm - which felt very comfortable. I followed this up with a 10 minute edging session (no orgasm). Throughout the day and still as I write this I have been experiencing a nice flaccid hang, approximately 4 1/4-1/2" girth x 4 7/8- 5 1/4" length (1/8-3/8" more girth x 0-3/8" more length). Still no killer morning wood, but erections feel noticeably thicker during sex.

    (Today) Day 4 of Decon 2:

    Today I plan on doing 1, higher intensity Bathmate workout for 10 minutes. Depending on sensation, I will pump between 155-165 mm.

    Based on my PIs from yesterday's low intensity workout, I must say that it bears some benefits. Today's workout will determine whether alternating high/low intensity days is optimal for my growth, or just low intensity. I was planning on doing a longer set today with the Bathmate, but I feel it would be best to control the overall intensity by only adjusting the pressure and not the duration.

    On a side note, I picked up some 10% MSM cream and have been applying it frequently. May be too early to tell, but it looks and feels like its helping. I'll keep you guys posted.

  8. #88
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    I would not worry too much about morning erections...I have not had them for quite some time but I still get killer erections on command.
    Matters of Size
    SRT

    Suppressed-Restricted-Transposition

    The World's Best Penis Enlargement Routine
    based on 11 Years of Research
    !

    Four Easy Steps to Starting SRT
    and Making the Fastest Penis Size Gains Possible


    1. Get The Matters of Size Maximum Gains Package
    Learn All Penis Enlargement Exercise through Video!

    2. Get The All New Length Master Penis Stretcher and Hanger
    The Most Advanced Penis Stretcher and Hanger in the World!

    3. Get The SizeGenetics Penis Extender Complete Package
    (61% Off!)
    Learn how Important the SizeGenetics Extender is to growth and healing!
    Take advantage of ALL DAY PENIS STRETCHING

    4. Get a Bathmate HydroMax X20, X30, X40 or X50 Penis Pump! with FREE SHIPPING IN THE US!
    Realize Instant Usable Penis Size! Perfect for Penis Girth and Length Expansion!
    Hydro Penis Pumps have become a Massive Tool in Penis Size Gaining and Healing!

    5. Get the Phallosan The All Day and All Night Stretcher Now $100 in extras!

    6. Follow the SRT Routine: Maximizing Gains and Healing Fastest!
    Watch your Penis gain inches in girth and length in the FASTEST time Possible!
    Over 15 Years of Research, utilizing the most effective Penis Enlargement techniques!
    ONLY AT MOS - ALL PRODUCTS HAVE A 5 YEAR WARRANTY!

  9. #89
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by doublelongdaddy View Post
    I would not worry too much about morning erections...I have not had them for quite some time but I still get killer erections on command.
    Good to know, DLD.

  10. #90
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Day 4 of Decon 2:

    As expected, I did my 10 minute Bathmate workout at 160 mm - which felt a little uncomfortable towards the last minute; very little fluid build up at urethra. Due to my congested schedule, I only had enough time to do a 6 minute jelq routine after wards. My penis has been hanging nicely throughout the day (~ 4 3/8" x 5") which is a good sign that 10 minutes at 160 mm is ample for now.

    Applied MSM lotion 3 times throughout the day - still to early to tell if it can help with the stretch marks, but my skin feels great so far.

    Tomorrow I plan on doing a 10 minute 120-130 mm Bathmate workout followed by a short 5 minute jelq for my low intensity day.

  11. #91
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Hey Dford! Got any updates on your DHT experiment?

  12. #92
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Hey DH, I've still been inconsistent with my 4 per day applications because of my schedule, but it's slowing down a bit now so I'll be able to stick to it and my routine better. I'm glad because I'm half way through my first tube of Andractim, I need to get on it! How long of a decon are you taking? I may need a day or so off the DHT because although I haven't been able to get in all my doses every day, I've put it on at least twice per day every day since I started. I haven't seen any growth yet, but my Penis Enlargement has been minimal for the last couple weeks. It still feels like it's doing something, regardless of my inconsistency. If I can get a good steady span DHT and Penis Enlargement, I'm expecting to see some new growth, I just hope it'll be enough to say definitively if the DHT helped or not. Keep me posted on your progress and keep pullin!

    Dford

  13. #93
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    We need to keep this thread alive and consistent to see how much all this is helping.
    Matters of Size
    SRT

    Suppressed-Restricted-Transposition

    The World's Best Penis Enlargement Routine
    based on 11 Years of Research
    !

    Four Easy Steps to Starting SRT
    and Making the Fastest Penis Size Gains Possible


    1. Get The Matters of Size Maximum Gains Package
    Learn All Penis Enlargement Exercise through Video!

    2. Get The All New Length Master Penis Stretcher and Hanger
    The Most Advanced Penis Stretcher and Hanger in the World!

    3. Get The SizeGenetics Penis Extender Complete Package
    (61% Off!)
    Learn how Important the SizeGenetics Extender is to growth and healing!
    Take advantage of ALL DAY PENIS STRETCHING

    4. Get a Bathmate HydroMax X20, X30, X40 or X50 Penis Pump! with FREE SHIPPING IN THE US!
    Realize Instant Usable Penis Size! Perfect for Penis Girth and Length Expansion!
    Hydro Penis Pumps have become a Massive Tool in Penis Size Gaining and Healing!

    5. Get the Phallosan The All Day and All Night Stretcher Now $100 in extras!

    6. Follow the SRT Routine: Maximizing Gains and Healing Fastest!
    Watch your Penis gain inches in girth and length in the FASTEST time Possible!
    Over 15 Years of Research, utilizing the most effective Penis Enlargement techniques!
    ONLY AT MOS - ALL PRODUCTS HAVE A 5 YEAR WARRANTY!

  14. #94
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Agreed, DLD.

    Dford: applying Andractim 4 times daily certainly sounds like it would take a lot of time - figuring that it should air dry for at least 15 minutes. Why not try doing 2 x 5 gram applications instead? That's what I plan on doing when I get back on the routine.

    My Decon break will last at least a week, possibly 2 weeks. Part of this decon break is to experiment with how my current Bathmate + manual routine is working by itself. I figure 2 weeks should be ample time to discern workout specific PIs and compare that to DHT enhanced PIs.

    Day 5 of Decon 2:

    Did a 10 minute bathamte session at 130 mm - felt very comfortable with absolutely no fluid retention. Did an 8 minute jelq + edge combo. Applied MSM cream 3 times throughout the day - skin looks good.

  15. #95
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    DH, I wanted to spread it out because I figure that only so much DHT can be absorbed at once. I have no idea how much that might be, however. At the rate things have been going, I may need to do it that way since I know I can get in at least two applications. I'm going to keep doing more research to see if I can find any solid answers, it's easier said than done.

    Dford

  16. #96
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Check this out....

    Transdermal dihydrotestosterone therapy and its effects on patients with microphallus.
    All patients demonstrated growth of the penis during treatment. The mean increase rate (153%) in the first 4 weeks of treatment was higher than that (118%) of the second 4 weeks… In conclusion, transdermal dihydrotestosterone therapy is an effective and relatively safe modality in the treatment of microphallus.

    It seems that most of the absorbtion must take place within an hour of application since it's recommended to wash after an hour.

    Dford

  17. #97
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Good find, Dford. This is the most frequently quoted article on the web, which reveals the potential of DHT. However, patients suffering from Microphallus may actually have heighten DHT receptors that have never received DHT associated from puberty. Theoretically, if DHT receptors are down-regulated, then all of the DHT in the world wont make a difference; unless of course systematically applying DHT can stimulate up-regulation.

    The critical aspect to this experiment is to discern - through trial and error - if my penis still has active DHT receptors. If inactive, the 2nd experiment will be to try to stimulate their expression. So far, phase 1 and 2 of my experiment may indicate inactive/down-regulated DHT receptors. Perhaps a higher dosage may change things...

  18. #98
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    I hear you DH, I've read that abstract a dozen times in different words, I just hope that I have some active receptors that will respond. There are also a couple that deal with transgender men and some that deal with older men suffering from andropause. All of these do not directly involve younger, "normal" men, I guess that experiment is up to us. I hope I can "awaken" some receptors and see some growth, I think this would be far more effective on pubescent men, however. The point that I was trying to highlight was that it is recommended to wash thoroughly an hour after application, which could mean a couple things: a majority of the absorption has taken place after an hour, and that there is still active DHT on the skin after an hour. It seems that if there is still DHT present, not all of it has been absorbed but if it's recommended to wash anyway; I guess that means that you have absorbed all that you are going to absorb from that application and it is good to wash off to avoid cross-contamination. My thoughts on this are that if there is still some active DHT after a period of time, would it not be beneficial to leave it on so that it'll be there when your body is able to absorb some more? Or have you reached your saturation point and there is no need to leave it on? Or are your levels already high enough above baseline that is doesn't matter? These are some of the things that are unclear to me, I wish there was some more science to find about this, but the abstracts are pretty vague and leave a lot of these issues unanswered. The more times I read these, the more I'm starting to think that as long as you apply some a couple times/day, you are going to have higher than normal levels and you will either respond via growth depending on your body's receptors status or you will not. I have a tendancy to over analyze things.

    Dford

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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by dickfordays View Post
    I hear you DH, I've read that abstract a dozen times in different words, I just hope that I have some active receptors that will respond. There are also a couple that deal with transgender men and some that deal with older men suffering from andropause. All of these do not directly involve younger, "normal" men, I guess that experiment is up to us. I hope I can "awaken" some receptors and see some growth, I think this would be far more effective on pubescent men, however. The point that I was trying to highlight was that it is recommended to wash thoroughly an hour after application, which could mean a couple things: a majority of the absorption has taken place after an hour, and that there is still active DHT on the skin after an hour. It seems that if there is still DHT present, not all of it has been absorbed but if it's recommended to wash anyway; I guess that means that you have absorbed all that you are going to absorb from that application and it is good to wash off to avoid cross-contamination. My thoughts on this are that if there is still some active DHT after a period of time, would it not be beneficial to leave it on so that it'll be there when your body is able to absorb some more? Or have you reached your saturation point and there is no need to leave it on? Or are your levels already high enough above baseline that is doesn't matter? These are some of the things that are unclear to me, I wish there was some more science to find about this, but the abstracts are pretty vague and leave a lot of these issues unanswered. The more times I read these, the more I'm starting to think that as long as you apply some a couple times/day, you are going to have higher than normal levels and you will either respond via growth depending on your body's receptors status or you will not. I have a tendancy to over analyze things.

    Dford
    Over-analysis is part of the scientific mind. As far as these experiments go, I would say its an asset.

    Been doing some research on DHT receptor up-regulation. There seems to be an stimulatory effect from supplementing with Vitamin D3. Don't have time tonight to go into details, but I thought I would mention it and see if you wanted to do some digging. If Vitamin D3 is beneficial, perhaps a topical application in conjunction with DHT may help maximize chemical reactions.

    Check this out: http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/140/3/1205

    Last edited by Douglas Hamlin; 05-07-10 at 06:22 PM.

  20. #100
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    Re: Andractim is my last hope...

    Day 6 of Decon 2:

    Did a 10 minute Bathmate workout at 160mm for 10 minutes. A little bit more fluid retention than my last high intensity workout, but is mostly likely due to the fact that I kept the pressure a wee bit higher than last time for possibly a bit longer too. Followed up with a 15 minute jelq, clamp, erect bend combo.

    Gotta run! Gonna go see Iron Man 2 with my girl!

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