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I want to know what the members of this forum think about Jesus of Nazareth??? Who was he??? Just say what you think, It's clear what my views are, but I want to hear what you guys think.
Wurkz2hard said:GS, Red, et al:
I highly respect your right to believe and have faith in your beliefs. I just wanted to get across (and feel I didn't adequately) that there is so much in this world touted as "the truth" whether written or oral form that later turns out to be anything but.
Real truth, can stand any test it is put to it. AS you said, some things are put out as truth but are not. Any test that you put truth to, it must come out correct. If it has errors, then it fails. But, just because someone says some part of the Bible is wrong without carrying through on the reason they
believe it, does not make it so. I deal every week with people who make statements about the Bible but have no facts to back up their attacks about the Bible. They read it someplace and took it as face value.
I just find it very very difficult to believe that such an ancient text that has undergone so many translations and modifications (a good example, the "version" of the Bible that the JW's have where it's been proven that they've modified passages to suit their own end. Perhaps not the best example, but one nonetheless) could be anything but the collective agenda of thousands of years of control and enslavement.
Okay, I understand what you are saying, but the ancient text that you are talking about is not just any book and it has had some very, very careful scrutinizing in its history. When copies were made of the Hebrew texts, there were certain rules that prevented mistakes from being made. About translations, that is another matter. Some translations are not good and have to be accepted as that. Some translations, so called, are not translations but rather paraphrases. Others have gross inaccuracies as you pointed out...the JW's translation is in error, to prove their doctrine and "suit their own end." Good scholarship quickly reveals this and it takes some work to ascertain which translations are good and which are not. Often there is an underlying motive behind the translation. When you investigate a translation you often find what is behind the reason it was developed. Money is often the cause for a translation so we have to take that into consideration too. Having said all that, I still have a great confidence in the Bible. I reject some translatoins and accept others. If you or anyone else is really serious, they can find a good translation and read it with confidence. Certianly you would not read the JW one, because it is slanted. So, which ones are not slanted, you will have to do some home work to work on that. Up until the early 1900's most any translation was accurate in the english language and you could trust it. With the proliferation of new translations, and copyrights and "money" you just need to work hard on investigation.
I have a couple years of Greek under my belt so can deal with the Greek text of the NT, but there is so much written from accurate sources that you can learn what you want with some study. The Hebrew text has had little if anything done to it, so it is very accurate. When the dead sea scrolls were found, they were so close to the translations we have it was uncanny.
It's not that I bear any animosity to anyone who has faith in God or religion in general, I in fact am spiritual but not religious. The Bible to me is just a tool organized religions use to ensure their flocks are kept in line.
I like that term, Spiritual and not religious. So often the religious are more tradition and organization than spiritual. Wrong, about the Bible used as a tool to ensure their flocks are kept in line...most of those who want to keep their flocks in line, don't use the Bible, or if they do, they twist and pervert what they want. One of the rules of Bible investigation or proper bible interpretation is "context." Anything can be proven if you take it out of context, bible or any document. Unfortunately, many rip the verse out of the bible as a proof text for their position and ignore the accurate context of the Bible.
Indoctrination in a doctrine that served its purpose in bringing order to a chaotic time but in the modern era nothing more then a quaint notion which still enslaves minds (there is no spoon...)
I don't know what you mean by that...There are many doctrines taught by some "churches" that are not taught in any bible verse or context. They may try and teach something from a Bible text but it stretches any text to prove it. Example. The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory...no bible context to even begin to prove it. Same with confession, so called. Also, no bible context to prove Mormon "baptism for the dead." These are just a few examples of the twisting of scriptures by some to prove what they want. But, we don't throw out the bible because of someone trying to prove their position by wrongly using it. Neither do we quit using some medicine or drug when someone had a reaction or didn't use it rightly.
I guess my problem is not so much that people believe in God (or Jesus) but rather they take the Bible at face value and those who are members of organized religion which causes more harm then good (most organized religions, hell any organized organization such as Teamsters or The Mob, what have you.) Anytime you have one or a select group of people dictating to the masses saying this is right or that is wrong gives me cause for great concern.
I can't disagree...organized religion, so called often has people in control. Again, I know many who are hanging on to their church or works or what they do, as their church teaches, but often....that teaching is not bible nor does the Bible give any support to these teachings. I could give you many examples; but this has become a long post. Thanks for listening. GS
Just my two-cents + tax.
millionman said:presenting scripture to show Christ not only as GOD but also to show the reality that the Gospel is not a figment of someone's imagination. I am also going to present the difference between FAITH and simple belief.